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Thank you so much Maureen for the information you've found for me. for various reasons I've not been able to respond to you but hopefully in the next few weeks I can pick up the threads again. My computer has been almost fixed and I can access GR again and will start again in the not too distant future. I think you have found the right family and I am very grateful. Ann

I wouldn't discount Ellen Morgan yet - it could be that she was really Pearce and the registrar/enumerator thought she was saying Ellen Morgan Please. Dafter things have happened.

Thank you all so much for the information. I'll trawl through it as soon as I can and inwardly digest. I can't find a marriage between henry and Ellen. Ernest's birth certificate gives his mother's name as Ellen Dormer, formerly Pearce. I've come across Ellen Morgan but have discounted her -perhaps I shouldn't at this stage. There's certainly a strong link between Ellen and Portsmouth as that's where she died. I don't think Henry ever returned.
Please be patient - I'm a busy person!
Will reply asap but I am so grateful for the leads you've given.
Ann

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London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Ernest Albert Trenery
Name: Ernest Albert Trenery
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 24 Aug 1879
Father's Name: John William Trenery
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Trenery
Parish: Saint Luke, Chelsea
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
County: Middlesex

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Ernest Albert Trenery
Name: Ernest Albert Trenery
Year of Registration: 1878
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Chelsea (1841-1981)
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 304 (click to see others on page)

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1881 England Census
about Ernest Albert Trenery
Name: Ernest Albert Trenery
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John W.
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Rotherhithe
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 12 Dilston Grove
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel: 19b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John W. Trenery 43 (Schoolmaster)
Mary Ann Trenery 36
Mary Ann Trenery 15
John W. Trenery 11
Alfred Ed. Trenery 7
Bertha Agnes Trenery 4
Ernest Albert Trenery 2
Ann Sumner 64 (Mother, widow)

This looks like Ernest and Jane, with sister Lilian and little Ernest.

1901 England Census
about Ernest Dormer
Name: Ernest Dormer
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Kilburn, London, England

Civil parish: Battersea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: East Battersea
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 223
Household Members: Name Age
Ernest Dormer 27
Jane Dormer 22
Lillian Sumnery 25
Ernest Sumnery 2

Jane born Farn(s)worth, Lancs.

Did Ernest marry Jane harris 1899 in chelsea
O/N/D 1a 748

Maryb
Edit Jane harris born 1879 Farnworth lancs same as Ernests
wife ,1891 cencus was in Streatham london with parents Richard a coachman/groom born 1852 Charlbury oxfordshire and Charlotte 1860 Charlbury Oxfordshire

Received from Ann:
Thanks for your help As far as I know the three children were Ernest b 2.3.1874; Lilian b 1876 (her married name was Summery or Sunmery) and I think, the other was Alfred . He was older. This comes from anecdotal evidence. The only time I can find mention of tErnest was in the 1901 Census when Ernest was married to Jane and living at 14 Peveril street, Batersea and in 1911 when he lived at 113 St Georges Square Mews, Belgrave.
I can't find mention of Alfred.
Ernest trained on SS Arethusa when he was about 12. This was a training ship moored on?the Thames for training underprivileged boys with the intention of them going into the navy. He was supposed to have done this but have no evidence, apart from vague memories from family. I would also like to find out more about this. Ernest was my grandfather and probably in his early life had a pretty tough time. Any more information would be so helpful. Thanks very much. Ann
........................................................................

FreeBMD
Marriages Jun 1898
DORMER Lilian Wandsworth 1d 1384
Trenery Ernest Albert Wandsworth 1d 1384

1911 census transcription details for: 80 Ranelagh Road Stamshaw Portsmouth

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN5516 RG78PN251 RD90 SD1 ED38 SN416

Reg. District: Portsmouth Sub District: North End and Buckland
Parish: Portsmouth Enum. District: 38
Address: 80 Ranelagh Road Stamshaw Portsmouth
County: Hampshire

TRENERY, Lillian Jane May Head Married F 35 1876 Housework London Paddington
TRENERY, Ernest Alfread Son M 12 1899 At School London Battersea
TRENERY, William James Son M 8 1903 At School London Battersea


FreeBMD
Marriages Mar 1910
HAMANN Rosina Charlotte Portsmouth 2b 936
Dormer Duval Henry A Portsmouth 2b 986
(I haven't checked the images to see which of these is correct).


1911 census transcription details for: 17 Manor Park Avenue Copnor Portsmouth

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN5496 RD90 SD1 ED18 SN371

Reg. District: Portsmouth Sub District: North End and Buckland
Parish: Portsmouth Enum. District: 18
Address: 17 Manor Park Avenue Copnor Portsmouth
County: Hampshire

DORMER, Alfred Henry Head Married M 39 1872 1st Class Petty Officer R N London
DORMER, Rosina Charlotte Wife Married F 30 1881 Hampshire Portsmouth
DORMER, Alfred Ernest Son M 0 (2 MONTHS) 1911 Hampshire Portsmouth


Maureen

LOL!! Henry,god bless him,is still a "working jeweller",so not too hard to find on the 1881. It's the 1871 that's got me stumped.

Maureen

Crikey Maureen, how did you find that?

I've sent a PM to Ann asking her what the children's names were.
Hopefully she'll reply sometime!!

I think this is the family I was looking at in 1881:
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Domiec 30
Ellen Domiec 28
Alfred Domiec 9
Ernest Domiec 7
Lilian Domiec 4
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 1363; Folio: 103; Page: 105

Useless to guess any further,I suppose...

Maureen

There are two possible Ernests born 1874, Ernest John and Ernest Montalbin. Given there is a son John William Mar 1878, it's possibly the second Ernest. But Lilian Jane isn't registered till Jun 1876 and Ann says the letter was written 3rd January. Could have been registered late I suppose.

I can't find the family at all in 1881 or 1891.

Oh gee,they've got their tree wrong. Henry Joshua was the son of Joshua and Sarah Dormer. Oh well,that's not our problem!!

Maureen

1861 census Henry Dormer 1820 born Denham buckinghamshire Chaff cutter
Martha born Ramsbury wiltshire 1822
Henry 1849.

A tree on Ancesry has these people in and says Henry 1820 married Martha Withers 1842 had Henry joshua Dormer 1849 died 1883 but married Elizabeth Bootle in 1870.

Maryb

Births Dec 1871 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dormer Duval Henry A Kensington 1a 45


Marriages Mar 1910 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dormer Duval Henry A Portsmouth 2b 986


Births Jun 1876 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DORMER Lilian Jane M Kensington 1a 36

Didn't Ann say she had 3 children with her and the letter was dated 3/1/1876 so they were born prior to 1876!!!!!!!

Maryb

this is the Peter Higginbotham site for workhouses

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/

I wish Ann would come back to us!!!
If these are the children:
Duval Henry Alfred Dormer Baptism 14 Sep 1876 Henry Dormer,
Ellen Dormer Saint Mary Magdalene, Paddington Westminster

Ernest Dormer Baptism 14 Sep 1876 Henry Dormer,
Ellen Dormer Saint Mary Magdalene, Paddington Westminster

Lilian Jane May Dormer Baptism 14 Sep 1876 Henry Dormer,
Ellen Dormer Saint Mary Magdalene, Paddington Westminster

John William Dormer Baptism 3 Sep 1879 Henry Dormer,
Ellen Dormer Saint Augustine, Paddington Westminster

Father is a working jeweller.

Matches up to:
Name: Henry Dormer Occ: Working jeweller
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Spouse Name: Ellen Morgan
Spouse Age: 18
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 5 Sep 1870
Parish: Saint Marylebone
County: Middlesex
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: Henry Dormer Occ:Chaff cutter
Spouse Father Name: Henry Morgan Occ:Carpenter
One of the witnesses was Martha Dormer who seems to have been Henry's mother.

I'd suggest that the workhouse in question was probably Paddington Workhouse in Harrow Rd. ??
So did Henry Morgan PEARCE just drop the PEARCE at some point??
Maureen

I can't find marriage between Ellen and henry in 1874.

Dainty Daisy Dormer musuc hall singer born 1883 real name Kezia beatrice Stockwell in portsmouth daughter of a dockyard worker she died 1947 in Clapham London.

Maryb
Ellen married March 1874 and by Jan 1876 had 3 kids!!

Just read thread again,it doesn't say they married 1874.My mistake,sorry.

Is this linked?

Marriages Sep 1870 (>99%)
Clarke Louisa Marylebone 1a 818a Scan available - click to view
Cooch William Marylebone 1a 818a Scan available - click to view
DORMER Henry Marylebone 1a 818a Scan available - click to view >>>>>>>>>>>>>
MORGAN Ellen Marylebone 1a 818a Scan available - click to view>>>>>>>>>>>>>

when was the marriage of Henry Dormer and Ellen Pearce please ?