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My brickwall. William George Hodder and Sarah Ann Pain, parents of William George Hodder born Taunton 1847? is all I have. Trying to find anything about them

You have their names from his birth certificate?

I don't see a marriage at FreeBMD ... could have been before registration.

Have you not been able to find them together in a census?

... I'm not seeing a birth registration for William George Hodder 1847 Taunton. (Or anything like the name, date and place.)

Can you give the source of the info?

1851 census
no William with those parents names between 1843-1848 born Taunton

There is this birth ,year a little out.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about William George Hodder
Name: William George Hodder
Year of Registration: 1851
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Thornbury
County: Avon, Gloucestershire
Volume: 11
Page: 497

well at least it seems as though he existed .


There is this Public Family Tree on ancestry ........... which of coruse needs careful checking as always, and assuming that it isn't in fact yours!

HODDER Family Tree
Owner: bondibeach

William George HODDER

Timeline

1847
Birth
Taunton Somerset England

1912
12 Nov
Age: 65
Death
Sydney NSW Australia

Parents

William George HODDER

Sarah Ann PAIN

No siblings shown

Spouse & Children

Sarah Ann RUSSELL
1844 – 1887
Born NSW
Frederick James HODDER
1885 – 1963
B. Sydney, NSW





sylvia

Ah - so the DOB and parents' names are undoubtedly taken from his NSW death certificate, i.e. from whatever knowledge the person who registered the death had ... or didn't have. ;)

Except ... parents' names weren't stated.

13882/1912
HODDER WILLIAM G
65 YRS SYDNEY
SYDNEY

but that also means that his date of birth, and place of birth could be wrong


arrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh



Problem is there are a few Hodders around.


I wonder if the one that Susan found be the correct one???





sylvia

I wonder whether Carol has his marriage certificate.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingMarriage.cgi?

860/1876
HODDER WILLIAM GEORGE
ANDERSON SARAH ANN
SYDNEY

Just a coincidence that wife's name and mother's name was the same - Sarah Ann?

Six kids, 1877 to 1887.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingBirth.cgi?


Any chance he married twice?

386/1893
HODDER WILLIAM G
CROUGH LILIAN
SYDNEY

Possible; this death coincides with the last birth mentioned above:

1609/1887
HODDER SARAH
father JOHN
mother SARAH
SYDNEY


The marriage certificate(s) could disclose something.

Hi Carol - I received your private messages. Fortunately the last one had a surname in it, Crough, so I was able to do a search and find the thread they were about.

Please put all that information here n the thread -- click the purple Reply button up at the top of the thread and the invisible box for adding a message will open.

That way we can see the information all together in one place and I don't have to toggle back and forth from the various messages in my inbox to here, to connect it up.

Just about every newbie makes this mistake; the site management makes sure the site is as user-unfriendly and hard to figure out as possible.

Since I'm here now ... the upshot is:



The only information I have is from a marriage certificate of William Junior when he married here in Australia for the 2nd time and he stated that his parents name were as above and that he was born in Taunton, Somerset.


I have both marriage certificates first one from Mitchell Library not only shows NIL parents, where born, the certificate was not witnessed - they forgot! must have been a happy occasion.
I have Sarahs parents and I have looked at as many certificates of the childrens deaths as I can. The certificate of Lilian Crough and Williams marriage is the one that I got the approximate dob and Williams parents



And aha, I still had the tab open where I'd searched for William in 1851 (as had Jan). If Susan has the right William birth, the birth was before the census and he should be in it. And actually this is that William in 1851:


Name: William Hadder
[William Hodder]
Age: 2 Mo
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: Purton, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Hinton
County/Island: Gloucestershire
> Registration district: Thornbury

George Hadder 34
Martha Hadder 29
Sarah Hadder 12
James Hadder 5
Ellin Hadder 3
Amelia Hadder 2
William Hadder 2 Mo
Thomas Briley 22
Daniel Watts 20
Alfred Apperley 17
Philipp Hollister 46


Someone has corrected the surname at Ancestry. The correction was made in July 2007, and the Ancestry user who made it said "This is my ancestor". If it might be your William, that person is still active on Ancestry and can be contacted through there. Mind you, she has said "This is my ancestor" for each child in the household, so we can't tell which is actually her ancestor. ;)


In Somerset, there are two William Hodders, one born 1847, son of John and Elizabeth, and one born 1849, son of Charles and Phebe, both in Yeovil.

Oh good grief. Someone has corrected the second one's surname as well (Ancestry had it as Stodder). And the person who made the correction, in 2006, is the same person who has corrected dozens of my own family members!!! and will not allow anyone to contact him/her through Ancestry, and has never contacted me even though s/he has made corrections to the same family as I have, and has never responded to my pleas in my own notes that s/he contact me. I sincerely hope that this is *not* your William Hodder, because I know I don't want to be related to that Ancestry user!!


My suspicion is that William made up the names of his parents -- his father the same as his own, and his mother the same as his wife's.

1838-1860, there are 5 Hodder events in Taunton reg dist - 1 birth, 2 marriages and 2 deaths. No William or Sarah among them.

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

It could be that he lived in Taunton but wasn't born there. The Hodder name certainly seems to be concentrated in Devon, Somerset, Gloucestershire and Dorset.

There are a couple of William Hodders in 1851 and 1861 who are grandsons and servants and so unfortunately can't be associated with any parents.

That particular Ancestry user crops up again on this record in the 1861 census:

Name: William Hadder
[William Hodder]
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Gender: Male
Where born: Yeovil, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Yeovil
Town: Yeovil
County/Island: Somerset
Registration district: Yeovil

George Hadder 35
Eliza Hadder 10
William Hadder 9
Oliver C Hadder 6


A William with a father George in Somerset -- close?

This seems to be the birth of that William:

Births Mar 1852
HODDER William Churchill Yeovil 5C 556

and the marriage to go with:

Marriages Sep 1850
Adams James Yeovil 10 786
Baker Walter Yeovil 10 786
Beare Eliza Yeovil 10 786
COOPER John Yeovil 10 786
Deaman Eliza Yeovil 10 786
> HODDER George Yeovil 10 786
Park Hester Yeovil 10 786
Salisbury Mary Yeovil 10 786


If your William's mother died when he was a child it would be no surprise if he did not know her name.


This is that household in 1851:

George Hodder 25 - leather parer
Elena Hodder 24 - it's Eliza - glove sewer
Eliza L Hodder 3 Mo
Susan Hockey 20 - assistant - glove sewer
Ann Denson 12 - assistant - glove sewer

So the mother would be Eliza Beare or Deaman, and this would be her death:

Deaths Jun 1860
HODDER Eliza Yeovil 5c 374

If that William did turn out to be your William, there's a clear trail for the family!


Births Mar 1851
Hodder Eliza Churchill Yeovil 10 626

Births Mar 1852
HODDER William Churchill Yeovil 5C 556

Births Sep 1854
Hodder Oliver Churchill Yeovil 5c 498

Births Sep 1856
Hodder John Churchill Yeovil 5c 49_

Deaths Dec 1857
Hodder John Churchill Yeovil 5c 355

Births Dec 1858
Hodder Elizabeth Churchill Yeovil 5c 506

Deaths Dec 1859
Hodder Elizabeth Churchill Yeovil 5c 345

Marriages Dec 1876
Hodder Oliver Churchill Yeovil 5c 815


That's the sum total of events for Hodder with Churchill recorded as a given name -- no marriage or death for William Churchill Hodder in England.

William George Hodder mar Sarah Ann Russell 2 Sep 1876, in Sydney. I can supply all childrens names.
Sarah Ann Russell was widow. marr Gustav Anderson 28 Aug 1965 in Sydney. childrens' names available. Gustav died 1873
Sarah Russell parents John and Sarah (Hunter) both born Sydney
William George marr Lilian Crough 1893 in Sydney he died 24 Nov 1912 in Sydney
No information besides being born in Somerset was entered on to any certificate, except for Hodder/Crough where he stated the Hodder/Paine parents.
Janey, does this help at all? Carol

Sadly no ;) ... because it's all after the fact of what we're looking for.

How about the work I did here? Any feelings?

There's only one possibly relevant possible Hodder=Pain* marriage registered after 1837


Marriages Jun 1841
EARS Thomas Dorchester &c 8 125
Green Elizabeth Dorchester &c 8 125
Hodder James Dorchester &c 8 125
Paine Catherine Dorchester &c 8 125


Neither first name is correct, but again, I wouldn't be surprised if he had made them up.

I would really like to thank you for your help. I will just have to keep plodding on. I think he did change his name or mum had him on the quiet, or they were just passing through Taunton - who knows. I really would like to find these Hodders, as it is my side of the family - enough said. I will come on the board again if I find anything else about them. I wonder if you do lookups for Scottish or Irish?

thanks again eveyone Carol

There are people here who are good at Irish and Scottish stuff -- there are resources you can use yourself for Irish, I just don't have a clue about them. For Scottish BMDs, you can search free, but pay to see results and images, here:

www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

-- worth acquainting yourself with. The Scottish censuses are with the English at Ancestry, for example, 1841-1901, but the images can only be seen at scotlandspeople.


What I was getting at, for William, wasn't so much that he would have changed his name (although that's very common and the eventual outcome of many threads here), as that he simply may not have known what his parents' given names were. He was William George, so his father was William George. Need a mother's name, use his first wife's name. That sort of thing.

As far as being from Taunton -- Yeovil, for instance, is barely more than 20 miles away, and Martock, which figured in some record I was looking at, is 5-ish miles from Yeovil toward Taunton. When people were far from home, they often tended to name a recognizable larger place nearby as their hometown (or the place where they last lived) rather than the specific locale of their birth. There's a Taunton in Australia but no Yeovil, so it could be as simple as people in Australia knowing how to spell Taunton. ;)

I haven't been able to spot the James Hodder who may have married a Catherine Paine in the censuses for sure. You might take a flyer and order that marriage certificate, to find out at least whether the Hodder and Paine married each other. If they did, it would be rather coincidental!

Here's a somewhat interesting one just to add to the pot.

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/igi/search_igi.asp

Birth/Christening, 1820 - 1860, British Isles
Father: William Hodder, Mother: Sarah

1. Esther Hodder - Christening: 13 JAN 1833 Whitchurch Canonicorum, Dorset, England
2. Elizabeth Hodder -Christening: 22 JUL 1837 Whitchurch Canonicorum, Dorset, England
3. Mary Ann Hodder - Birth: 1839 Marshwood,Beaminster Dist, , Dorset, England
4. Leah Hodder - Birth: 1842 Marshwood,Beaminster Dist, , Dorset, England
5. Rachel Hodder - Birth: 1844 Marshwood,Beaminster Dist, , Dorset, England
6. Miriam [Hodder] - I Christening: 26 JUL 1835 Bettiscombe, Dorset, England

All but #6, with mother Sarah, are submitted (not reliable) records stating mother Sarah Radford. But they go with this extracted one

WILLIAM HODDER
Spouse: SARAH RADFORD
Marriage: 05 MAR 1832 Whitchurch Canonicorum, Dorset, England
Batch No.: M160061


1841 in Marshwood:

William Hodder 30
Sarah Hodder 25
Ester Hodder 8
Merion Hodder 6
Elizabeth Hodder 4
Mary Hodder 1

1851 in Marshwood

William Hodder 38
Miriam Hodder 16
Elizabeth Hodder 14
Mary A Hodder 10
Leah Hodder 8

1861 in Offwell, Honiton, Devon:

William Hodder 48
Esther Hodder 26
Ann Hodder 9
> William Hodder 6
-- grandson, i.e. likely son of Esther, born Marshwood


Births Dec 1854
Hodder William Beaminster 5a 358
(reg dist includes Marshwood)



It was very common for children of unmarried parents to make up fathers when they married. (English marriage certificates require only a father's name, and that would be the parent's name that the person didn't know.)

The maternal grandfather was one of the common choices for father's name.

The age is well off the age on the death certificate, but "65" is such a nice round number for someone when they die.


Have a look at google maps. Marshwood and Honiton are about 15 miles south of Taunton.

Susan, would there be anyway of finding out if this William came to Australia?