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I am wondering if someone is visiting the records office in Manchester they could check out the details of a marriage for me.

The marriage is recorded as being at Manchester Cathedral on 25th July 1841. John Beesley married Alice Harwood. I am interested in any additional information such as parents names, living or dead, and witnesses.

Thanks in anticipation

Hi Ann

Have you tried emailing Manchester Libraries?

If my memory serves me right, they have copies of the parish records for the Cathedral and might be able to provide you with a transcript.

www.manchester.gov.uk/libraries/arls/

Manchester Cathedral also offer some services.

http://www.manchestercathedral.org/history/archives

Hope thats of some help, as I'm not sure someone can view a cert at a records office unless they pay for it (unless it is a parish record). I might be wrong, but I'm sure someone will point it out if I am :)

if you have no luck with the advice Mhairi gave you, as this marriage is after 1837 a full certificate for it is available for £9.25, it will have all the information you seek.

Marriages Sep 1841 (>99%)
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BEESLEY John Manchester 20 414
CHETHAM James Manchester 20 414
COTTRILL Thomas Manchester 20 414
HARWOOD Alice Manchester 20 414
LAY Mary Manchester 20 414
Pickston John Manchester 20 414
Sharpley Harriet Manchester 20 414
WOOLLEY Mary Ann Manchester 20 414



Nicky

Is this the couple in 1851?

1851 England Census
about John Beesley
Name: John Beesley
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1803
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Alice
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Newton
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Newton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:....Berry Brow

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2i
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 33
Household Members: Name Age
John Beesley 48...Calico Painter
Alice Beesley 30...Aston, Lancashire
William Beesley 8
George Beesley 6
Hannah Beesley 4
Margaret Farwood 56 ....Mother-in-law...Harwood on the image...Widow...Dress Maker....Wreath? Yorkshire

Children all born in Newton.

Tried the Manchester website, apparently the service is unavailable at present because they are undergoing a refurbishment. Normal service to be resumed in June.

Yes that is the correct family from the 1851 census

Thought her father's name may be on the 1841 census, but Margaret & Alice are on their own.

Hi Christina,
Thanks, I have the census information for the family. Alice isn't on the 1861 census, John is living with 7 children, the youngest is only 1 and so far I have been unable to find any record of Alice's death

Could this not be Alices death? age and location fit exactly...


Deaths Dec 1871 (>99%)
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Beesley Alice 50 Manchester 8d 268



Nicky

this address for a contact is held on the Lancs RO catalogue for the cathedral

Original registers and held at the Cathedral:- Head Verger, Manchester Cathedral. M3 1SX

Hi Nicky,
Yes I was aware of this death also but was unsure if it was the right one because she doesn't appear on the census with the rest of the family in 1861 and 1871

Ann

Yes i had also looked at the 1861 and 1871 census and saw she wasn`t with the rest of the family.

I see John said he was widowed on the 1871, which would mean she died prior to the death entry I gave you, but It was sometimes the case that a husband/wife would say they were widowed, when really their spouse had simply left them/gone away.

There are a couple of other Alice Beesleys of the same age in Lancashire on tthe 1871 census, but not in Manchester...I will go and look and see if they are all around in 1881, if they are then I think this may be your lady who died in 1871.........


Nicky

Thanks Nicky,
That would be much appreciated

Ann

Right......... All the Alice Beesleys from 1871 born 1821 +/- 5 years are accounted for in 1881 except one, they are :.

Alice born 1826 married to William Beesley born 1826 birthplaces illegible but both in Lancs., with children Alice born 1854 and Joseph born 1865 living in Everton in both 1861 and 1871, Alices year of birth is listed as 1825 in the 1861 census, I can`t find any of them in 1881.

Even if this Alice WAS the one that died Dec. qtr. 1871, I think its unlikely the death would have been registered in Manchester, as they seemed to be from and live in the Everton area, which has its own registeration district West Derby.





Nicky

I wonder if this is her. Age, place of birth & location fits and it does say married on the image. Of course A B could stand for anything...but many women were institutionalised for having post natal depression weren't they?


1861 England Census
about A B
Name: A B
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Relation: Patient
Gender: Female
Where born: Ashton, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Prestwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Prestwich
ED, institution, or vessel: County Lunatic Asylum

RG9; Piece: 2976; Folio: 140; Page: 11

well spotted Christina........

Think that could be her...I`ve even done a check on Alice only with no surname incase of an obscure transcription, but drew a blank....she just dosn`t seem to be listed.

Your findings match up exactly on age ,POB and initials.....


Nicky

I can't find anything for 1871 and John is a widower on that census. Yet the only possible death reg is the one that Nicky posted.

Could her registration have been delayed for some reason?

As I said earlier Christina, John may have said he was a widower on the 1871 Census even if Alice was still alive...

Maybe it was the stigma of having a spouse in a Lunatic Asylum.....if she`d been there since 1860/61 most of the children wouldn`t have even remembered her, it may have been easier for him to say she died?

I think if this was my relly I`d risk the £9.25 and buy the cert......all things point towards it being the correct person, only problem being if she died in the Asylum the informant would probably be a staff member and it probably won`t have her as wife of John, or a home address ,just that of the asylum, so maybe still won`t be concrete proof..

EDIT...Can`t imagine a death entry would be delayed for too long unless there was an inquest..my Gr Gr grandmother hung herself on 30th september 1861, and the inquest was held the same day, but the death was`nt registered until 4th December the same year, so can`t imagine Alice died before the 1871 census was taken which was 2nd/3rd April and death not registered until the December qtr. can you??


Nicky

Yes Nicky it does seem a long delay...but she's not in the asylum in 1871.

Perhaps the A B in 1861 isn't her after all.

Christina, Nicky

thank you for the information you have found. I feel quite close to you having embroiled you in my investigation.

the asylum entry looks a real possibility, wonder why they put people in there in those days?

the death is still a mystery though but it is beginning to look like it is her.

thanks for your help and if you have any ideas, I'll always be interested to hear them

Ann

Thank you all who offered advice and assistance in this search. I have now confirmed that Alice Beesley was admitted to Prestwich Asylum in March 1861 and discharged to the workhouse in June1870

Ann