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Hi Dea

That sounds like the right birth - my Chester geography leaves much to be desired. It sounds as though he would be Harriet's son even though he's in the 1911 census as Mary's son.

I had to laugh when I saw the 1899 marriage you found for me for William and Mary as the other girl on the page was Mary Alice Sharples. Harriet's sister, Susan Jane married the soldier John Sharples in Lambeth London England on 6/7/1863 and neither he nor any children were found in later census records. I'm sure Mary Alice Sharples isn't related - but it is strange isn't it?!

Thanks so much for all your hard work.

Best wishes

Liz

The birth which Ingrid posted will be the one - he is the only William born in Knutsford around that time and Altrincham reg district includes Knutsford.

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1871

DAWSON William Edmund Knutsford Cheshire East KNU/16/88

..................

This is 'probably' his marriage:

Marriages Dec 1899

**Dawson William Edmund Prestwich 8d 517
**Ditchfield Mary Ann Prestwich 8d 517
Sharples Mary Alice Prestwich 8d 517
Walker Richard Prestwich 8d 517

..............

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1899
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
DAWSON William E DITCHFIELD Mary A Manchester, Bradford, Christ Church Manchester 33/8/162
........................

He is shown as aged 9 on 1881 census with Daniel + Mary so the age does fit.


Dea x

Hi Ingrid

Thanks. I think he was born in Knutsford Cheshire as per the 1911 census - I don't know if they paid much attention to the year they were born back then - I know the census records are not accurate but some really have a difference in age.

Thanks again

Liz

Hi Liz

There is this birth
Births Dec 1871 (>99%)
Dawson William Edmund Altrincham 8a 184

But to be sure you would need certificates which get expensive.

Cheers

Hi Dea and Ingrid

Sorry, Australia awake but unfortunately the dreaded housework had to be done.

Harriet Dawson was Harriet Jordan, born c1839 in Kingham Oxfordshire and baptised 29/1/1839. Her parents were Richard Jordan c1799 in Little Compton Gloucestershire and Ann, formerly Humphris. They were very well documented in the 1851 census and then Richard and Ann were kidnapped by flying saucer as no trace is found of them ever again.

One son went to Australia (our lot), one to America and one joined the army and I have all of their families. I've traced two daughters, Susan Jane and Harriet, who is the cause of our problem.

However, after Susan Jane married a soldier they didn't seem to live together so another problem Jordan.

Harriet married a soldier, Daniel Dawson, who in the 1861 census was Headquarters 5th Dragoon Guards Preston Barracks Brighton which is where they married. Shades of Pride and Prejudice!

We have Harriet and Daniel married and having several children and then it gets a bit muddling with trying to find when Harriet died and when Mary Fitzsimmons arrived on the scene. The Fitz part of a name was supposed to show an Illegitimate royal offspring - could be interesting!

In the 1911 census we have Mary widowed and living at 40 Hassop St Beswick Manchester with "her son" William who was born 1872 at Knutsford, Cheshire, England. 1872 would make William the son of Harriet though I had no trace of him in my research.

William has a wife Mary and three daughters so I wondered if I could trace the family through the daughters and hope somebody in the family knows some of the old stories.

Was Daniel a bigamist? Were the records incorrectly transcribed? I hope we find out!

Many thanks

Liz

Night dea
I think what you have said may be right.

Nite nite - see you both in the morning !!

Dea Xxx

Are you not awake yet in Australia ??

Come back soon you two - I have to go to bed soon !!

Dea x

In 1861 -Harriet was working as a barmaid in the William the Fourth 'Pub' in Brighton at 4, Church Street.

A few months later she married Daniel.

She was then said to have been born in Bowton Wells, Oxfordshire c 1838.

Can anyone see her with parents in earlier census's please?

Dea x

Thanks for your input Ingrid,

I am not convinced that the Norfolk death is the one - If she was 'on her death bed' following Florence's birth in Cheshire, I doubt she would have travelled all the way to Norfolk and she was born in Oxfordshire so I can't see any connection to there at the moment.

However, I am very much 'drawn' to the 1877 death registered in Altrincham.

It is in the right area and she is the right age and I cannot see another Harriet to fit on census's. ALSO - she has the correct middle name - Caroline !! I really think this MUST be her death.

It is strange that Mary + Daniel got married in Chester, rather than the local church - Chester is a great distance away - could it be so that they were not recognised by people who knew he was still married?

Also, he said he was 'single'!! - would he have got away with this in the local parish?

I really think this was a bigamous marriage !

Mary was 'a strange one' too - she does not appear anywhere before the marriage - I feel sure that she has 'invented' either her name, her birth place, her age, or her father, or indeed, the whole lot, as they do not add up anywhere.

I feel this is one which we will never get to the bottom of but I will keep looking for clues.

Would really appreciate other peoples' help on this one.

Thanks,

Dea x

My thought was maybe Harriett came from Norfolk originally and was buried there in a family plot. Though for the times along way to go.

Or as you say had two wives at the same time, if Harriett became very ill after Florence was born.

There is this death which the age would fit. Same place Florence was born
Deaths Jun 1877 (>99%)

DAWSON Harriett Caroline 37 Altrincham 8a 137
This also fits with the second burial.

Sorry if I have added more confusion.

Oh dear Ingrid - more confusion! The dates of the BDM of the Dawson family are getting more and more muddled!! I wonder if Daniel had two wives at once!?

Thanks

Liz

From previous post, I do realise that Norfolk is along way from Cheshire.

Only other death I could find, is more a Burial which is 2yrs after he remarried.
Name: Harriet Caroline Dawson
Gender: Female
Burial Date: 06 Jun 1877
Burial Place: Rostherne, Cheshire, England
Death Date:
Death Place:
Age:
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I07261-6
System Origin: Part 1 - 1
Source Film Number: 1941868
Reference Number: item 3
Collection: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991

In the 1911 census I have found Mary widowed and living with her son William Dawson, born in Knutsford in 1872 (more confusion though I've found many of my relatives don't seem to know exactly when they were born). He is married and has children.

I also found Tom Dawson, who would have been her stepson, in 1911 in 25th Battery Royal Field Artillery, Lahore Cantonment, India and found his army pension records. He left the army in 1918.

Daniel Dawson, husband of Harriet and Mary, was also in the army prior to marrying Harriet.

Poor Harriet, it was sad seeing her die so soon after having the baby. Thanks for that record.

So we seem to be finding quite a bit on the family today.

I'm afraid that in Australia it's time to switch off the computer and go to bed.

Many thanks for all your help.

Liz
Australia

First Marriage for Daniel

Marriages Sep 1861 (>99%)

Dawson Daniel Brighton 2b 299
Jordan Harriett Caroline Brighton 2b 299

Birth for Florence
Births Dec 1874 (>99%)
DAWSON Florence Altrincham 8a 201

This coud be Harriet's death soon after baby Florences arrival.
Name: Harriet Dawson
Gender: Female
Burial Date: 09 Dec 1874
Burial Place: Yarmouth, Norfolk, England
Death Date:
Death Place:
Age:
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Occupation:
Race:
Marital Status:
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I07368-1
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1526490
Reference Number: Item 2 p 259
Collection: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991

Well, this is getting complicated and I am afraid I will have to leave it nnow until later (baby granndson duty today !!)

This would appear to be Florence's birth so that Oxford death would seem to be wrong, in which case, I can't find a death for Harriet!

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1874
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
DAWSON Florence Knutsford Cheshire East KNU/18/11
......................

I cannot find Mary Fitzsimons on any census but I did find this on IGI Pilot which at least gives her father's name.
It states they are both single and we know at least Daniel had been married before (did we ever find the actual marriage?)

Name: Daniel Dawson
Gender: Male
Event Type: Marriage

Marriage Date: 23 May 1875

Marriage Place: St John, Chester, Cheshire, England

Father's Name: John Dawson
Mother's Name:
Principal's Marital Status: Single
Principal's Residence: St. John the Baptist, Chester, Cheshire, England

Spouse's Name: Mary Fitzsimons
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Residence: St. John the Baptist, Chester, Cheshire, England
Spouse's Father: James Fitzsimons ****
Spouse's Mother:
Age: 28y ********************** - therefore c 1847 ??
Image Number: 317
Digital Folder Number: 4200821
Film Number: 2045954
Collection: England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
..................

I also found this christening for Florence which might be helpful?

Name: Florence Dawson
Gender: Female
Event Type: Christening
Birth Date:
Christening Date: 07 Feb 1875
Christening Place: Rostherne, Cheshire, England

Father's Name: Daniel Dawson
Mother's Name: Harriet Caroline

Principal's Residence: , Rostherne, Cheshire, England

Age:
Image Number: 70
Digital Folder Number: 4018692
Film Number: 1941851
Collection: England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000

Will check back later,

Dea x

P.S. there is other info on IGI Pilot but I don't have time to look just now.

If you don't have the site it is:

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=allCollections;r=1

Good luck - speak later.

Dea x

Thanks to you all for all that information. Daniel had four children by his first wife Harriet. The death for Harriet (who came from Oxford) December 1873 is possible - I have her last child born 1874 but I have that from the census records and it's possible that she was born 1873.

Thanks

Liz

This looks like the only possible death for Harriet - she did come from Oxfordshire ?

The district Wallingford spans the boundaries of the counties of Berkshire and Oxfordshire


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Dec 1873
Dawson Harriett 35 Wallingford 2c 200

Dea x

Daniel + 1st wife on 1871:

1871 England Census
about Daniel Dawson
Name: Daniel Dawson
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Harriet
Gender: Male
Where born: North Rode, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Rostherne
Ecclesiastical parish: Rostherne
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Altrincham
Sub-registration district: Knutsford
ED, institution, or vessel: [12]
Household schedule number: 105
Household Members: Name Age
Daniel Dawson 39
Harriet Dawson 32
Caroline A Dawson 8
John H Dawson 5
Tom Dawson 1




Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3687; Folio: 186; Page: 19; GSU roll: 842106.

Dea x

For reference:

1881 England Census
about Mary Dawson
Name: Mary Dawson
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: Daniel
Gender: Female
Where born: Leamington, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Tatton
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address: New Tatton
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Altrincham
Sub-registration district: Knutsford
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Daniel Dawson 49 Groom (Domestic Serv).
Mary Dawson 40
John Dawson 15
William Dawson 9
Florence Dawson 6
Tom Dawson 12

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3511; Folio: 89; Page: 18; GSU roll: 1341841.

Looking at the ages of 'their' children it looks like at least one of them may have been married before?

I will take a look.

Dea x