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I am unable to find a birth for my grandmother Minnie. She was born about 1877. She was married twice and on both of her marriage certificates claims her parents as Thomas Spillane and Mary Healy. However, Minnie is not listed on either of Tom or Mary’s death certificates as a child of theirs. Australian certificates list all of the children whether living or dead. Minnie is not there, now, even if she had been a really bad person and been disowned by her parents (if they were Tom and Mary) there would have been a birth certificate in the name of Minnie Spillane but I cannot find one. I don't really think her surname is Spillane but she was connected to this family in some way. Can anybody point me in a direction to follow please?

Did you start one thread, delete it and start another? Tried to reply to
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1239558
and got an error message; annoying ...

I see. You added two words. For future ref: the Edit link is the good way to fix errors in a post.

As I was saying there ...


The state is necessary info for Australian searches.

NSW records

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm

show one birth to a Thomas and Mary Spillane:

V18422591 133/1842
SPILLANE HENRY
THOMAS
MARY

which seems a little early to be the right couple ...


What are the names of the children on the Thomas and Mary death certificates?

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate your time. The children listed are: Edward 1872; Richard 1874; Catherine (Kitty) Marion 1876; Thomas Augustine 1878; Michael Thomas 1880; Eugene 1882; Timothy 1882; Richard 1888; and Patrick Walter 1889. All born in Williamstown, Victoria. I thought Catherine Marion may have been the same person but have since had contact with her descendant and found no joy for my search.

Have you tried her as Minnie Healy, if she was maybe a little older than she was letting on?

I tried Minnie Healy 1865-1880 and got two results, which I'm not paying to see. ;) Narrowing it to 1865-1872 gets the same two results.

Oops, one of them was a marriage, one a birth. By trial and error, it was in 1872 ... but mother's name wasn't Mary ...

1868-1892, Spillane, parents Thomas and Mary, gets only 8 results, but you have 9 kids listed.

Have you checked to see which births are shown in the index?

There are two births for Minnie with parents Thomas and Mary 1876-1878. You never know, could just be an error in the surname spelling.

Minnie Elizabeth Spillane Compact Disc #139 Pin #3874237 Pedigree
Sex: F

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Event(s)
Birth: 4 Nov 1877

Williamstown, Victoria, Australia
Death: 23 Apr 1925

Carlton, Victoria, Australia
Burial:

Melbourne General Cemetery

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Parents
Father: Thomas Spillane Disc #139 Pin #3874239
Mother: Mary Healy Disc #139 Pin #3874240

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Marriage(s)
Spouse: Jas Rafferty Disc #139 Pin #3874320
Marriage: 1898
Williamstown, Victoria, Australia

Spouse: Arthur Richards Disc #139 Pin #3874236
Marriage: 3 Aug 1904
Collingwood, Victoria, Australia
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7 of those births have Mary as Healey, 1 as Healy. But she married as Healy.

(I'm just using trial and error method.)

There's one Minnie Spillane marriage in Victoria records, but it isn't to a Houlihan.

The Spillane-Rafferty and Rafferty-Richards marriages do seem to be in the index.

latonapistone, if you would give all the info you have, including husbands' names and children's names, when Minnie died, what certificates you have ... and say whether you've done these searches in the victoria historical indexes ...

I have accessed the Pioneer Index using Surname: Spillane and Father t* and that’s how I got all of their 9 children.
Minnie married Jas Rafferty in 1898, they had 2 children who failed to survive. James died 1900.
Minnie then married my grandfather Arthur in 1904 they had 4 children – Violet 1905-1922; Edna 1907-1988; Mavis Elizabeth (my mum) 1909-2009 and Arthur 1911-1974.
Minnie’s death certificate (1925) gives her parents as William Splaine and Cath unknown. However, this information would have been given by her husband Arthur and I don’t think he knew much about the family. My memories of my mother speaking about the Spillanes is just that she said she thought that they were related in some way. As far as I know they were estranged. She only really spoke of her father’s family by name.
(I have copies of all of the above certificates)

I am in fact, Helen Fell.

I was suggesting that it would be worth paying the few cents to see what the birth records in the Victoria index are -- the 8 births to Thomas and Mary -- and which child is missing, from the list you have, and whether the 8 remaining coincide perfectly. Just to check you have a complete list. I'd also check the Minnie with parents Thomas and Mary to make sure she can't be yours.

Minnie could be a nickname, as you suspected. Or she could very possibly have been a child they took in to raise (another reason to check for other Minnie births in the neighbourhood around the right time).

How about witnesses at the marriages -- any recognizable names?

Ah, you are the submitter.

(If you'd like your name and address removed from this thread, Ann o' GG will edit to delete it.)

I hate to say it -- but this makes you one of those people who submit unverified/unreliable info to the Mormons, against whom we caution people constantly!

I know and it is to my great regret that I ever did it. Never again!!

There's a William Spillane + Cecelia Gaunt marriage in the IGI, 1886, submitted, with no details. And there is a William Spillane + Gaunt marriage in the Victoria index 1885-1887.

One theory, just to theorize, might be that Minnie was a child of a previous marriage of William's, he was widowed, and his brother raised his daughter ...


edit - one birth to that marriage, submitted record in the IGI:

Eileen Marie SPILLANE
Birth: 1890 Brighton, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Death: 1970 Mitcham, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Burial: 1970 , Victoria, Australia
Father: William Stansilans SPILLANE
Mother: Cecilia GAUNT

Mean anything to you? ;) There was an Eileen Spillane born 1889-1891, with mother Cecelia, but father William doesn't match. Ah, but Wm does.

This William Stanislaus Spillane whose name no one can spell -- might be worth tracking down info about him, to see whether he's connected with Thomas.


I'm off for my late Canadian supper -- have fun! ;)

No witness names that I recognize on the marriage certificates. I have made lists and lists of all Minnies born in Victoria, 1875-1880 and cannot see which one could be her. I haven't hit this brick wall lightly, I have tried everything I can think of but I do value you suggestions.

I have actually tried tracing this family and found them to have originated in Co Cork. My Spillanes come from Co Kerry, which probably doesn't mean anything much. I have all of the siblings for Thomas Spillane - he is the son of Edmond (Red Ned) Spillane and has 11 siblings, none of whom are named William. Enjoy your supper :)

Hi,


My gg grandfather was illegitimate, he lived with his mother and her husband, he took on her husbands name, but he was not listed on either of their death certificates.

Was Minnies age the same on both records?

I have now deleted the submitter - don't usually include it but thought it might be wrth it this time!!!

Minnie Spillane Compact Disc #147 Pin #1300100 Pedigree
Sex: F

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Event(s)
Birth: 17 Aug 1877
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Parents
Father: Maurice Spillane Disc #147 Pin #1300094
Mother: Joaney Barry Disc #147 Pin #1299588

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Marriage(s)
Spouse: Jack Houlihan

the one I just posted hails from Ireland