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Is it possible that anyone is able to find me any death references regarding William (Alfred) Graham born c1856 and Rosina Sophia or Sophia Rosina Graham born c1866. Around the London / clerkenwell area. Thank you!

Yes the census with the similar names does look the most promising. You have certainly given me food for thought. And these things can be quite confusing.

I will continue to search for a marriage reference for William and Rosina / Sophia. If they did get married could have their details have got mislaid?

Thank you for your time, effort and input. It is all very much apprecated.

Regards

Not sure about those census results, there are so many William Grahams! Also, the 1901 census where Rose is called Sophia - a bit strange, this is the only mention of a Sophia by the looks of it - so maybe she wasn't at home when they filled out the forms and William got confused?

Looked a bit more at Rose Greenman, think there could be 3 possible births - 1865 S.Stoneham, Hampshire Elizabeth Rose - (rule out married in 1883); 1866 Dursley, Rose; 1867 Malmsbury Roselian Ellen. All 3 are on the 1871/81 census (the one born Hampshire as "Greenham" in 1881). Out of the 3 on 1881 this looks the most promising due to names, and would tie in to the Roselian Ellen birth, Hullavington is part of Malmsbury reg district -

GREENMAN, John Head Widower M 54 1827 Mason
Deaf Hullavington
Wiltshire VIEW
GREENMAN, Clara Daughter Single F 18 1863
Hullavington
Wiltshire VIEW
GREENMAN, Rose Daughter Single F 13 1868
Hullavington
Wiltshire VIEW
GREENMAN, James Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar
Hullavington
Wiltshire VIEW
GREENMAN, Sidney Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar
Hullavington
Wiltshire VIEW

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RG number:
RG11 Piece:
2028 Folio:
58 Page:
6

Registration District:
Malmesbury Sub District:
Malmesbury Western Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Hullavington Municipal Borough:
Address:
(Frog Lane), Hullavington County:
Wiltshire

Same one in 1871:
Rose Greenman
Age 4
Estimated Year of Birth 1867
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Juvenile
Address Cottage
District Malmesbury, Malmesbury West
Parish Hullavington
Administrative County Wiltshire
Birth Place Wiltshire
Birth County Wiltshire
Other family members: (all born Hullavington)
John 51 Stone Mason
Harriet 41
Ambrose? 18 Stone mason
Abel John 12
Cecilia 10
Clara Harriet 7
Worthy James 11mth?

In 1891 only John (72), Cecilia (25) & Sidney (16) found together, rest of family had left. Haven't found Rose/Rosina in 1891, but the other Rose & her family are in this area by 1891.

Hmmm interesting. What do you think of him being the same *William Graham 1859* as per the 1861 census up to the 1911 census, Considering the grey area with regards to the 1881 & 1891 census?

Whitby Jet is a black stone used in jewelry.

Hi

I have been looking at family tree's on ancestory. I imputted William Graham 1892 and up popped a tree that had the same family as per my 1901 census: 19 Coburg Rd. William Graham 45, Sophia R Graham 35, along with children William 9, Hollis 3, Clara 6 and Ernest 1.

The 1891 census put William (1859) as a lodger at Cold Bath Buildings, Clerkenwell. As a Whitby Jet Worker?? He gave his birth place as Yorks, Whitby??

The 1881 Cencus places him at Bradford Moor Barracks, Bradford, Yorks. A private soldier.

The 1871 Census places William at Lloyds Row, Clerkenwell.
George F Graham (head) 43,
Sophia (wife) 39,
*William 12*,
Arthur 10,
Sophia 8,
Beatrice 2, and
Alfred 1.

1861 Census Garnault Street, Clerkenwell.
George Graham (head) 33,
Sophia 29,
George 11,
Alice 9,
Sophia 4, and
*W'm 2*

The tree owner also gave a birh index of William Edmund Graham, jan, feb, mar, clerkenwell, vol 1b, page 531. (same index at mac's, thank you).

A baptism record was also avalable for *William 1859* to view and was given as:
Baptised St Clements, City Rd, Islinton. 5th Jan 1873. His date of birth was given as 24th Jan 1859.

Along with *william*, Alfred Graham (from 1871 census) was also baptised the same day and his date of birth was given as 5th Feb 1871.

Thou this does not prove that the *William Graham 1859* is the father to my grandmother Lilian Ada Rosina Graham as there are still a few grey area's especialy where the 1881 and 1991 census are concerned. And no marriage ref has yet been found.

I have contacted he tree owner. Hopefuly when they do reply at some point in time we will beable to confirm or not confirm links.

Baptism of a William Robert Graham:

Name: William Robert Graham
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1854
Baptism Date: 29 Jan 1854
Father's name: John William Graham
Mother's name: Anne Graham
Parish or Poor Law Union: Charterhouse St Thomas
Borough: Islington

Born Dec19th 1853. Father a gold engraver. address 6 St James Buildings.

Re the address for Lilian's birth - the family were in 2 different houses 1901 at 19 Coburg Road and 1911 at 21 Coburg Road so they could have also lived at the address given on her birth certificate. Have you found William in 1891?

same chap with Granny in 1861:

Name: William Graham
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Clerkenwell

Civil Parish: Clerkenwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Clerkenwell
Sub-registration district: St James
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 108
Household Members: Name Age
Emily Whaley 55 c1806 Westminster.
Samuel Crafer 26 son
Rosay Crafer 14 daur
William Graham 22 son in law gold chain maker
Emily Graham 28 daur
>>>William Graham 8 grdson
Harriet Graham 6 grddaur
Harry Graham 4 grdson

The 1854 William has parents called William and Harriet (thinking of Clara's second name):

Census 1871

Name: William Graham
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation: Son
Father's name: William Graham
Mother's name: Harriett Graham
Gender: Male
Where born: Clerkenwell
Civil Parish: St Bartholomew The Great
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew the Great
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: London City
Sub-registration district: St Sepulchre
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 47
Household Members: Name Age
William Graham 42 c1829 Holborn, London, England.Gold chain maker.
Harriett Graham 46 c1825 Wymandham, Norfolk, England.french polisher.
William Graham 18
Henry Graham 14
Sarah Graham 6
Alexander Penman 21 son in law c1850 Shoreditch.

Sorry, got the decade wrong on last post!

Births Mar 1854 (>99%)
Graham William Robert Clerkenwell 1b 507

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Births Mar 1859 (>99%)
GRAHAM William Edmund Clerkenwell 1b 531

The 1901 census original states William was born Clerkenwell - could either of these be him?

Births Mar 1864 (>99%)
GRAHAM William Clerkenwell 1b 584

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Births Dec 1864 (>99%)
GRAHAM William James Ckerkenwell 1b 614

For info - from freebmd

Births Mar 1892 (>99%)
Graham William Alfred Edmonton 3a 372

Births Sep 1894 (>99%)
Graham Clara Harriet Edmonton 3a 316

Births Sep 1897 (>99%)
Graham Horace James J Edmonton 3a 398

Births Mar 1900 (>99%)
Graham Sidney Ernest Edmonton 3a 400

Births Sep 1904 (>99%)
Graham Lilian Ada R Edmonton 3a 477

Thankyou Margaret will try to find other baptism records for the other sibling.

I only have my grandmothers birth details from a copy of her birth certificate which states She was born on the 6th June 1904 and given the name Lilian Ada Rosina Graham. Her fathers name was given as Wiliam Graham, a General Labourer. Lilian's mother was stated as being Rosina Graham (formerly Greenman). Their address was given as 70 Acacia Road ???.

On my grandmother Lilian's marriage certificate to my grandfather the strange thing is that it states Lilian's father as being John Graham, a general Labourer.

The only other reference I have to Lilian's other siblings is what is stated on the 1901 & 11 census's. I will check through to find birth index's for Lilian's siblings etc. I have no birth place for William (their father) only what is stated on the 1911 census as being born Holloway?

Possible sons?

Name: Ernest Graham
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1899
Baptism Date: 20 Dec 1899
Father's name: William Graham
Mother's name: Rose Graham
Parish or Poor Law Union: Wood Green
Borough: Haringey

Name: Albert Edward Graham
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1903
Baptism Date: 18 Jan 1903
Father's name: William Graham
Mother's name: Rose Graham
Parish or Poor Law Union: Wood Green
Borough: Haringey


Both have father a labourer, address 19 Coburg Rd.

You don't give a birthplace for William?

Nearest I can find is:

Greenman Rose Dursley 6a 189 OND 1866.

Do you have all the living childrens birth details - all registered Edmondton?

Hi!

Yes I agree with you Sidney and Ernest where possibly one and the same. I have just looked again for marriage ref, no success (maybe they was never married)?