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How does George's occupation compare on the marriage, births and censuses?

Just worried that things don't add up and we have the wrong family.

Rose

No I don't have any more information on her. I suppose that will be my next project. :)

Do you have any more details regarding Sarah Irving? I don't see a marriage for her or a death for Elizabeth which is odd.

Perhaps May was Sarah's daughter from another relationship?

Rose

Hi Alison, so pleased you've tied up some loose ends. So - the Elizabeth Ann Irving we found was a complete red herring! - What a good job you got the certificates.

Very excited. Finally received my long awaited birth certificates and marriage certificates from the UK. I think I have figured out some of it. George Ralph Married Elizabeth Ann Bell together they had Isabella, Dinah and Albert. Not sure what happened to Elizabeth, whether a death or a divorce took place. But George Ralph went onto marry Sarah Irving and together they had Olive, Gilbert and George. So my great "Aunt Olive" was actually my Grandmothers half sister, they had the same father but different mothers. I had no idea!!! It's really nice to have documents to compare and match up addresses and dates, it's very exciting and very rewarding. Still haven't figured out how 'May" was connected in all of this. Growing up I thought she was the sister of my grandmother but apparently not. Oh well I will keep on working on that one. Thanks to you all who tried to help.

Thanks again for your help. I ordered birth certificates this morning so I will be anxiously awaiting those. I also remembered something last night. Ian Johnstone I believe would be the Grandson of Olive not the son. I believe Douglas Johnstone was the son of Olive. Ian would have been born around 1963 (ish). Hopefully someone who knows him or knows of him will read this. :)

I was born and raised in Pelaw. :)

You're very welcome!

Do come back and let us know how you get on - I work very near Leam Lane!

No I did not know this!! Thank you very much!!!! :)

Hi Alison - you can easily get copies of the certificates online from the General Register Office (GRO) - http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

The cost is £9.25 each which includes postage anywhere. (Of course, you may already know this).

Wow!!! You are all so helpful. Thank you!!! It would make it easier if I could run to a records office and get copies of their birth certificates. However, I moved to the US back in 92 so that is not an option. Once I feel I have found the right people I will most likely order copies of their birth certificates and hopefully that will fill in some of the gaps. This is what I know for sure.
I know for sure that Isabella Yates nee Ralph was born in 1906 and died in 1982 and that she married Ambrose Pattison Yates. I also know for sure that Olive Ralph married John H Johnstone. Isabella didn't die until 1982 and Olive lived until around 2004. I had realtionships with both of them. I always thought growing up that Olive and Isabella were sisters, now I am not so sure. My Dad I thought, referred to Olive as his Aunt. So that would make her Isabellas sister (or so I thought). Sorry for rambling :)

here's the birth and death records for Gilbert -


Births Dec 1914 (>99%)
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Ralph Gilbert F Irving Gateshead 10a 1905




Deaths Dec 1915 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ralph Gilbert F 1 Gateshead 10a 1026




birth and death records for George -


Births Mar 1921 (>99%)
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Ralph George Irving Gateshead 10a 1946


Deaths Dec 1921 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ralph George 0 Gateshead 10a 914

According to a tree on @ncestry the Elizabeth Ann from Broughton married a John Steele in 1910 (no record attached).

I can't find a record for that marriage, or an Elizabeth Ann Irving to anyone that fits!

I'd strongly recommend getting the birth certificates for Isabella and Olive to compare the mother's maiden names, and a copy of that 1903 marriage cert.

Possible 1891 census for Elizabeth Ann Irving - George Ralph's wife:

Name: Elizabeth A Irving
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas Irving
Mother's Name: Isabella Irving
Gender: Female
Where born: Wyndham Row Broughton, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Little Broughton
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Little Broughton
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Cockermouth
Sub-registration district: Cockermouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Irving 40
Isabella Irving 38
William Irving 16
Elizabeth A Irving 15
Sarah Irving 12
Joseph Irving 10
Robert Irving 8
James Irving 6
Isabella Irving 3
Thomas Irving 1

This 1881 seems to tie with the birthplace and year of George's wife per 1911:

IRVING, Thomas Head Married M 29 1852 Coal Miner Brigham Cumberland
IRVING, Isabella Wife Married F 28 1853 Whitehaven Cumberland
IRVING, William Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar Workington Cumberland
>>IRVING, Elizabeth Ann Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar Broughton Cumberland
IRVING, Sarah Daughter Single F 2 1879 Broughton Cumberland
IRVING, Joseph Son Single M 0 1881 Broughton Cumberland

Registration District: Cockermouth Sub District: Cockermouth

Civil Parish: Broughton Little Municipal Borough:

Address: 30, Wyndham Row, Broughton Little County: Cumberland
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

She's still with her family above in 1891, and then in 1901:

DANIEL, Grave Head Married M 45 1856 Labourer (General) Bothel Cumberland
GRAVE, Isabella Wife Married F 25 1876 Gt Broughton Cumberland
GRAVE, Eveline Daughter Single F 0 (9 MOS) 1901 Windy Nook Northumberland
>>IRVING, Elizabeth A Visitor Single F 25 1876 General Servant (Not Domestic) Gt Broughton Cumberland

Registration District: Cockermouth Sub District: Cockermouth Enumeration District: 15 Ecclesiastical Parish: Great Broughton

Civil Parish: Broughton

Address: Penny Bridge, Broughton, Great Broughton
County: Cumberland

Note there's a Gateshead connection with Eveline Grave having been born Windy Nook.

I'm a little puzzled!

The 1917 birth record for Olive shows a mother's maiden name of IRVING, yet the 1903 marriage record posted (which certainly seems to fit the 1911 census) shows George marrying Elizabeth Ann BELL.

Could Elizabeth have been born Irving and married a Bell? But can't find a likely marriage record.

1871 census showing George Ralph - note spelling of surname:

Name: George Relph
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph Relph
Mother's Name: Dinah Relph
Gender: Male
Where born: Little Clifton, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Great Broughton
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address: Nook
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Cockermouth
Sub-registration district: Cockermouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Relph 45
Dinah Relph 39
Hannah Relph 17
Joseph Relph 14
Elizabeth Relph 10
George Relph 7
Thomas Relph 3
John Head 17
John Milburn

Thank you all very much.

Albert died a few months later.

There were 2 more boys called Gilbert and George who also died before their 2nd birthdays.

Rose

Marriages Mar 1903 (>99%)
Bell Elizabeth Ann Gateshead 10a 1137
Haywood Herbert Taylor Gateshead 10a 1137
Irwin Sarah Margaret Gateshead 10a 1137
RALPH George Gateshead 10a 1137



RALPH, George Head Married M 35 1876 Coal Miner Hewer Little Clifton Cumberland VIEW
RALPH, Elizabeth Ann Wife Married
8 years F 35 1876 Broughton Moor Cumberland VIEW
RALPH, Albert Son Single M 1 1910 Heworth Durham VIEW
RALPH, Dinah Daughter Single F 7 1904 Dunston Durham VIEW
RALPH, Bella Daughter Single F 5 1906 Dunston Durham VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
30408 Reference:
RG14PN30408 RG78PN1747 RD557 SD1 ED17 SN432

Registration District:
Gateshead Sub District:
Heworth Enumeration District:
17 Parish:
Heworth

Address:
13 Grange Buildings E Heworth