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thanks for help everyone. just got back birth certificates for esther and thomas maynard and they are my gggrandmothers children. This means Thomas was Ellen's father and my great-nan's niece not her sister, but related nether the less. I just wonder why they didn't go with their mother when she separated from William, only Hannah was listed in the 1891 census.
any way thanks for the help.
Julia

still no luck

hi thanks for all your help. sorry so long getting back to everyone, I was at work and travelling home. This is Cecelia's family. I had already found her before her marriage on the census's. I did find on the 1881 census a child called esther Maynard living with her grandparents - the Howes and there was another grandchild listed as Hannah Howes which matches up with the age of Hannah Maynard/Olive listed in the 1891 census with Cecilia and George Olive but Esther is not living with them nor any other children previous, I have looked for William, Thomas or Esther in the 1881 census's
but no luck. any help with this would be appreciated.
thanks to everyone looking at this for me

julia

Is this a child of William & Celia? It's just that William is listed as brass finisher whereas on the marriage record he's a pump fitter. Esther was born 6 April 1875.

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Esther Maynard Name: Esther Maynard
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1875
Baptism Date: 23 Apr 1875
Father's Name: William Maynard
Mother's Name: Celia Maynard
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hoxton St Mary
Borough: Hackney

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about William Thomas Maynard Name: William Thomas Maynard
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Spouse Name: Cecilia Howes
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 15 Feb 1875
Parish: St Thomas, Bethnal Green
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Edward Maynard
Spouse Father Name: Edward Howes

Original says he's a pump fitter, his father a lithographic printer, her father a bricklayer's labourer. Address for both is Union St. Witnesses Edward & Anna Howes.

the same family but a year earlier.

Name: Cecilia Howes
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Eward Howes
Mother's Name: Hannah Howes
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Luke
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: St Luke
Sub-registration district: City Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 99
Household Members: Name Age
Eward Howes 35
Hannah Howes 31
Edward Howes 10
James Howes 9
Cecilia Howes 7
Jesse Howes 5
Joseph Howes 3
Charles Howes 1
George Howes 20

could this be your Cecelia Howes? if we can follow the right person then we may be able to find out what happened to William.

below is poorly transcribed but i believe the Seliar here is the same as the Cecelia marriage above. As father was listed as Edward. But no sister Jane.

Name: Seliar Howes
[Cecilia Howes]
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
[1854]
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edward Howes
Mother's Name: Hannah Howes
Gender: Female
Where born: St Luke, Middlesex, England
[Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England]
Civil parish: St Luke
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: City Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 258
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Howes 46
Hannah Howes 39
Edward Howes 20
Henry Howes 19
Seliar Howes 17
Jessey Howes 15
Joseph Howes 13
Charles Howes 11
George Howes 9
Hannah Howes 6
William Howes 4
Thomas Howes

in the 1881 census record there is a C.Maynard living with sister, could this be her?

Name: C.E. Maynard
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil parish: St Mary Islington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 46 Plimsoll Rd
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Embroideress

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Walter J. Cooper 29
Jane E. Cooper 24
Frederick W. Cooper 2
Infant Cooper
Elizabeth Tickley 62
C.E. Maynard 29

The other interesting thing is that there is a death for a William Maynard in 1880 London.

I am only making assumptions here but worth the enquiry

could this be the same maariage as above on Free BMD?

Surname Given Name District Volume Page Transcribers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1875
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MAYNARD William Thomas Bethnal Green 1c 586
MAYNARD William Thomas Bethnal Green 1c 586

This marriage could be the one listed on ancestry.co.uk , there is a William Thomas Maynard married to a Cecelia Howes in London but I cannot look up any more details beyound this.

hi her name was cecelia howes born 1853 c she married william in 1875. I have been unable to find them on the 1881 census but between when they got married and 1891 she separated from william and got together with my gggrandfather George Olive. Cecelia and George appear on the 1891 census with their children and a daughter Hannah who was a Maynard but I cant find Thomas Charles (or Charles Thomas) or any other children. I cant find William either. If I could find a birth reference for Thomas/Charles then I would order the birth certificate to find out who his mother was. Very annoying, I have spent time looking but maybe I am missing something. Julia

Julia, who was your gggrandmother (married to William Maynard)?

any luck with anyone finding t charles maynard on previous census reports? I still cant find his birth reference either if anyone else has any luck. thanks for looking
julia

no those names don't mean anything but I will have to keep looking thanks anyway

The witnesses were William Henry Penney and Jane Penney, if that's any help?

wow that was quick. I didn't think to look for a marriage but no luck on census yet. The marriage reference does prove his father was William now I just need to find out his mother's name. thanks again for your help
julia

Marriage?
Marriages Jun 1905 (>99%)
Connell Johanna Holborn 1b 1162
MAYNARD Charles Thomas Holborn 1b 1162

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921Name: Johanna Connell
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Spouse Name: Charles Thomas Maynard
Spouse Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 24 Apr 1905
Parish: St Paul, Clerkenwell
County: London
Borough: Islington
Spouse Father Name: William Maynard (Brass Trimmer)

sorry I forgot to put Holborn London

where?