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Born in 1855, she was in Strangeways prison with baby Hannah in 1890.

We want to know why , and wrote to Strangeways 2 months ago, who forwarded our letter to the Ministry of Justice, who in turn replied yesterday to say the records were never sent to them.

Anyway, the National Archives at Kew just informed me that these records have been digitised on Ancestry. com and for 1890 would be under ref: H027.

Could someone kindly try to look up Charlotte for me please, and find out why she was in prison with baby Hannah? Her maiden name was Bowcock..

Many many thanks..

not sure if this is the one
she was on trial for larceny and aquitted
England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 about Charlotte Moore
Name: Charlotte Moore
Date of Trial: 16 Jun 1892
Trial Year: 1892
Location of Trial: Lancashire, England
Sentence: Acquittal
Crime: See Image
Date of Execution or Release: See Image

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Ancestry has this record collection which may be the one that the National Archive referred to:

England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892

Unfortunately I cannot spot a Charlotte Morris who was likely to be in Strangeways (Manchester) prison in 1890.

Extracted from

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/448/archives_and_local_studies/3808/court_and_prison_records/8



Strangeways Prison in Southall Street, Manchester was built to replace New Bailey prison in Salford which closed in June 1868. It acted as the County Gaol for the Hundred of Salford (south-east Lancashire). It was renamed Her Majesty's Prison, Manchester in the 1990s. Manchester Archives holds the following records for this prison:

Female Registers, 1868-1875; Female Description Books, 1867-1879; Male Registers, 1869-1879 (with gaps); Male and Female Register (Small Debts), Dec 1878-Dec 1881.
We also hold a "Felony Register - Bolton and Salford Sessions & Manchester Assizes (Male) Jan 1863-Dec 1872" (ref: M600/4/1). This is probably for New Bailey Prison and Strangeways Prison.

No other records are known to have survived. A full catalogue for our prison records can be viewed on our on-line catalogue (ref: M600).

If you find an ancestor in Strangeways do not automatically assume they would have been tried at the Manchester Quarter Sessions. The Manchester Quarter Sessions only covered the City of Manchester and Strangeways Prison took prisoners from all over south-east Lancashire. It is more likely that they that they would have been tried at the Assize Court (see above) or if it was a short custodial sentence at their local or magistrates or Quarter Session Court.


George

reference

1891 England Census about Charles Morris
Name: Charles Morris
[Charlotte Morris]
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Prisoner
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Cheetham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Albans
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Cheetham
ED, institution, or vessel: Strangeways Prison
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3266
Folio: 75
Page Number: 32

In the 1891 census she is down as Charlot Morris b. 1855. Hannah is there age 9 months. There is a Bridget Morris there too, but that might be a coincidence.

1901 England Census about Hannah Morris
Name: Hannah Morris
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: William Hy Morris
Mother's name: Charlotte Morris
Gender: Female
Where born: Openshaw, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: North Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Beswick and Bradford Christchurch
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Prestwich
Sub-registration district: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 41
Piece: 3762
Folio: 8
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hy Morris 48
Charlotte Morris 47
James Morris 16
Hannah Morris 12
John Morris 6

Thank you all very much for your replies, I already have census info etc on Charlotte ( and am sorry I should have said at the start) - my heart jumped into my throat at your first post Maddie but unfortunately this is Charlotte Moore not Morris... :-(

And Jonesy, thanks you looked at the right dates it seems but no record of her.

We really had our hopes up that Govenor Vince at Strangeways would come up for us on this one, but why he sent our letter on to the Min of Justice when they say Satrngeways never sent them records is frustrating to say the least...


Here is the text from my mother's email to me today on this -


" 1) HMP Service is required under prison records acts 1958 and 1967 to transfer records over 30 years old to an approved archive,
The National Archives (TNA), Kew, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 4DU. Phone: 020 8876 3444 - Email: enquiry@national archives.gov.uk or TheNational Archives websitre: www.nationalarchive.gov.uk

2) Three TNA websites that may be of assistance:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/index.htm

hhtp://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

http://collections.europarchive.org/tna/*/http:/familyrecords.gov.uk

I'll send the letter with the other stuff and maybe these addresses may prove helpful. The real bonus here is that the Acts in 1958 - 1967, if complied with in time will be great as they could be safely secured away from the damage to strangeways in the riots. "


I wonder if Strangeways sent them to a local office??
Such a shame Ancestry couldn't shed any light, as TNA at Kew told me they had all the records for HO27 for that period. :-\

Jonesy, please could you see if she;s there in the Crim Regs for 1891?

Joe
I am sorry, stupid me
I have had a look on ancestry again but cannt see an entry for her

sorry
maddie

Maddie , not at all, you tried, thank you.

Joe,

She is not amongst those records I'm afraid. There are several Charlotte Morris's who were brought to trial but the last of those convicted and imprisoned was in Surrey in 1870.

Something that you might consider doing is looking for a report in the newspapers of the time. Lancashire libraries will give you free online access to 19th century British newspapers. I will post a link that tells you how.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1232629

Jonesey

So helpful, thank you for looking.

I spoke today to the Data Access and Compliance Unit at the Ministry of Justice who said the best bet was to phone Greater Manchester County Records, the woman there was very helpful but she said that many records were destroyed in the riots of 1990 and just because HM prison service was required to ship out records older than 30 years to approved archives ( Prison Records Acts of 1958 and 1967) , many didn't comply and prisons didn't see them as historical archives, just junk accumulating dust in their cellars. The same people referred me to a good site at www.manchester.gov.uk/libraries/arls for Prison and Court registers , where they also have a link to the digitised archives of the Manchester guardian since 1700, I will have to pay a subscription to look deeper, and I suppose like you say, a visit to the libraries will give me access to more papers of that period.

Thanks again for your help. Joe.

by the way, many of the surviving Strangeways records at the GM county Records office were found by a passer-by in a skip outside the prison after the riots. The prison had just dumped them there. I suppose we can't look to places like that for sensitive enlightened attitudes to their own local history, I guess they wouldn't be doing that job if they were like that. But let's raise a glass to 'passers-by' and inquisitive skip snoopers, we owe them a lot.

(it seems my great great gran's records were burnt in the riots...apparently all local court records will be in tact, it's just a case of tracing which court they are at, and then going to pay a visit, as it's 30 pounds an hour for the local admin to do it. )

Is it possible for someone to check Ancestry please?

Manchester County Records have told me that she will be in the

Manchester Court Records , name Charlotte Morris, 1889-1892.

Sorry Joe but there does not seem to be such a database on Ancestry. Perhaps if Ancestry have been given access to such records they have not as yet transcribed/ digitised / released them.

I have just looked in the Manchester Guardian for any articles re Charlotte, and on the blacksheep index but could find nothing, sorry.

What I did notice though is that Manchester Library is having a free Help Desk every Thursday until December and there are people there from the
Manchester + Lancashire Family History Society.

I think that you are not to far away from there? -Perhaps you could take some of your queries along and see if they could advise you?

The Library has old newspapers and all sorts of things of help.

Do you think you would be able to get there?

.....................

Family History Helpdesk
23 June 2011 - 22 December 2011 , Every week

Time: 11:00 - 14:00

Cost: Free

Want to trace your family history, but not sure where to start? Free, expert advice from the Manchester and Lancashire Family History Society.

Every Thursday

Location Details: The Manchester Room@City Library (Local Studies); Elliot House, 151 Deansgate (at the junction of Lloyd Street ), Manchester, M3 3WD. Telephone 0161 234 1979.

[Map]

Location: City Library


Dea x

Ok Jonesey, cheers again for trying.

Dea thank you loads but I am in Spain , I will ask my auntie if she can go instead :-)

I found this - http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/448/archives_and_local_studies/3808/court_and_prison_records/6


But I just can't find the right Court archive :-(

Ooooh Sorry Joe, I thought you were still around the Salford area - I don't know why!

I love Spain - which part are you in?

I will take another look tomorrow to see if I can find anything.

Dea x