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GillianMac Thank you. Cindy

There are two deaths for Ann Cook in the relevant period
Ann cook died 1838 Mar Q West Bromwich 18 472
Ann Cook died 1838 mar Q West Bromwich 18 461

Richard would have been 22 when Emma was born -and she is shown as daughter in 1851
Ther is a marriage in St Martins Birmingham on 12/9/1830 Richard Cook to Ann Pugh which fits datewise but dont know how to prove it

Quite easily -Harry was an accepted familiar name fro Henry and No, birth certs were not required -as evidenced by the numerous wrong ages given by bride or groom for various reasons

A REALLY BIG THANK YOU .
I have been working on the above ideas today as unable to do anything before so sorry if I appeared to disappear but family problem so elsewhere.
Personally I think Emma on the 1851 is sister to Richard as he would have been rather young to have fathered her. As we know it is not uncommon to see parents with the same christian names so will look further into this possibility.
I will also send for one or two certs to see what they show.
My only problem is whether Henry could become Harry on his wedding cert? Any ideas anyone did they have to show birth certs in the 1800's to get married?
Cindy

Possibly the second marriage
Richard Cook to An Huddlestone 1850 Jun Q Weat Bromwich 18 828

Ages in the 1841 census were rounded down for anyone 15 years old and over.

I think the occupation for Thomas Leedham is Saddler.

It looks as if I was wrong about Harry/Henry making up a father's name for his marriage certificate (although this does happen). The Richard found in the 1841 and 1851 census would seem to fit.

Kath. x

In 1841 Richard Cook 35 (ages rounded up or down by 5 in that year) is living in West Bromwich occupation Cooper without wife Ann (the first) and with a Thomas Leedham 20 who may be an apprentice (hard to read)

At the same time Emma Cook aged 9 is in a school in Bloxwich Walsall together with a mary Cook aged 6
so it looks as if the first Ann died before 1841

Emma as shown in 1851 is clearly a daughter of an earlier marriage but unfortunately to another Ann!

Emma Cook born 11/7/1831 baptised 25/9/1831 Christchurch West Bromwich daur of Richard and Ann

Thank you Roy, Helen, Gillian bit by bit it could all be fitting together looks like I need to send for Henry birth cert, Richard death cert and see whether I can tie the two children showing as step children as my ancestors- The only problem I have with all these are Cooke is spelt without the E and they did not appear to drop the E till the latter part of 1800's. Guess as not all were able to read and write perhaps when registering an error was made by one or the other.

Thank you everyone Cynthia

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915 about Julia Cook
Name: Julia Cook
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1852
Registration district: West Bromwich
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 358 (click to see others on page)

1851 West Bromwich
Richard Cook 41 Cooper emp 4 boys b Halesowen
Ann 26 wife
Emma 19 daur
Julia 6 mths daur
Elenor 6 mths all born West Bromwich

The 1851 Porkie Pie posted his occupation is cooper.

Helen

Thank you for helping. PollyPoppet Thanks I have this census and my great grandmother ancestors all sorted it is just Harry who I cannot locate much before his wedding.
Vera another thanks but not sure if this my man it is a little confusing.
Kathleen again a big thank you. Had not really given much thought to him perhaps making up a father or his birth not being registered. Perhaps I had better check deaths of any Richard Cooke between 1852 and 1875 across the UK.
Back to the drawing board! it is not often fh gets me confused but I have been searching for Harry for a few years now and it is beating me!
Thanks everyone Cynthia

Thank you for helping. PollyPoppet Thanks I have this census and my great grandmother ancestors all sorted it is just Harry who I cannot locate much before his wedding.
Vera another thanks but not sure if this my man it is a little confusing.
Kathleen again a big thank you. Had not really given much thought to him perhaps making up a father or his birth not being registered. Perhaps I had better check deaths of any Richard Cooke between 1852 and 1875 across the UK.
Back to the drawing board! it is not often fh gets me confused but I have been searching for Harry for a few years now and it is beating me!
Thanks everyone Cynthia

possible death

Name: Richard Cook
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1853
Registration district: West Bromwich
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 459

Roy

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921 about Harry Cooke
Name: Harry Cooke
Birth Year: abt 1853
Age: 22
Marriage or Bann Date: 23 Jan 1875
Parish: New Wortley, Holy Trinity, Armley Hall
Father's name: Richard Cooke
Spouse's Name: Fanny Maria Nelson
Spouse's Father's Name: Wilham Nelson

Occupation Cooper

possible 1851 for dad Richard his occupation is Cooper

Name: Richard Cook
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1810
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Cook
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Hales Owen Waltaler

Civil parish: West Bromwich
Ecclesiastical parish: Christ Church
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: West Bromwich
Sub-registration district: West Bromwich North
ED, institution, or vessel: 1s
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 15
Piece: 2026
Folio: 358
Page Number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Cook 41
Ann Cook 26
Emma Cook 19
Julian Cook 6 MO
Elmar Cook 6 MO

loooks like twins

plus the 1861 above that vera posted looks good, wife Ann same age plus there are a couple of births listed in west brom, bearing in mined that Harry was a nickname for Henry

Roy

Just to clarify if you are not familiar with early censuses (re the 1861 above)

The term "son-in-law" or "daughter-in-law" was often used for what we would call step-children

Possible birth:-

Name: COOK, Henry
Registration District: West Bromwich
County: Staffordshire
Year of Registration: 1852
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: 6B
Page No: 514

Is it possible that the father's name on the marriage certificate was an "invented" deceased father to cover up illegitimacy in front of the "in-laws".

If this is not the right birth then perhaps his birth was not registered as there were no penalties until 1875 for not registering births.

Kath. x