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Trying to find his first marriage.

I have Alfred South b 1904 (Southwark) , Harry William South b 30 Dec 1907 and Bert South b 1918. both born Lambeth

Bert and Harry are definitely the sons of Alfred South and Elizabeth Frances Iveson (they married in 1912) and on this marriage cert it says Alfred was a widower. I am leaning towards the idea that Alfred jr was the son of his first wife. Alfred's father on this cert is Joseph Henry South

Both Alfred jr and Harry appear with the family of Elizabeth F Iveson on 1911 census as boarders although Elizabeth and Alfred are not in the same household.

I have Harry's marriage cert and it says his father is Alfred Ernest South (Iron Founder) journeyman.

Can anyone find me a suitable first marriage fro Alfred sr and/or death of a first wife ?

Many thanks

Kate

There is a marriage for an Alfred South in Southwark in 1902 to either Catherine Smith or Harriet Elizabeth Love

Have you checked the young females deaths for South?

Yeah I had a look at that one , father is Henry which is a poss

He married Catherine Smith but couldn't find a death for a Catherine South .......unless she didn't die and thats why he didnt marry Elizabeth Frances til 1912?

The one in 1902 is to Catherine Smith. His age matches (he's 26) but he's a leather cutter and on the 1912 marriage he's a foundry labourer. On the 1902 marriage his father is Henry South whereas in 1912 he's Joseph Henry.
Also his signature looks different on the 2 marriage entries.

what does the 1911 census say for Alfred 1904's place of birth? if you could identify his birth then his birth certificate would answer the question of who his parents were !

would this be father Alfred ?

Births Dec 1878
South Alfred Ernest A St. Saviour 1d 147

Name: Alfred A E South ?
Birth Date: abt 1874
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1934
Age at Death: 60
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 1d
Page: 229

It says Southwark, I think that will be my next step, but as I am really tracing the line up from Harry I was hoping not to have to !

This is his birth record
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Births Mar 1904 (>99%)
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South Alfred Charles N Southwark 1d 26

Was hoping there might be a baptism on Ancestry or the like which would confirm the mother's name but haven't been able to find one.

the first one looks likely, thanks

Kate

this is that Alfred in 1911

MILITARY SOUTH ALFRED ERNEST ANSELL 1880 31 Newhaven Sussex

That one died in 1916 ( ancestry UK soldiers who died in the Great War)

so he wouldnt have been around to father the youngest son in 1918. maybe not him then

it is interesting that there is only ever one birth of an Elizabeth F Iveson

Births Dec 1884
Iveson Elizabeth Frances Lambeth 1d 385

( and no marriage of an Elizabeth F to an Iveson )

but there is also this marriage

Marriages Jun 1912
Iveson Elizabeth F Starkings Guildford 2a 188
STARKINGS James Iveson Guildford 2a 188

( mystery solved lower in thread, she was Ireson )

Name: SOUTH, ALFRED E A.

( deleted information about him to avoid confusion since I found him in the census with father James )

1881


Name: Alfred A. E. South
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Son
Father's name: Joseph H. South
Mother's name: Rosetta South
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Lambeth

>> Joseph H. South 44
Rosetta South 41
Annie E. V. South 11
Alfred A. E. South 7


so he is this death

Name: Alfred A E South
Birth Date: abt 1874
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1934
Age at Death: 60
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 1d
Page: 229

Births Sep 1873
South Alfred Albert E Lambeth 1d 367

Marriages Jun 1861
Handley Rosetta Witham 4a 419
South Joseph Henery Witham 4a 419
South Joseph Henry Witham 4a 419

I havent got deaths for them on the tree yet, either of them

Births Sep 1877 (>99%)
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SOUTH Alfred Lambeth 1d 326

I was thinking this was his birth

I think that is the birth and death for Alfred then ?

1911 born in Lambeth

SOUTH ALFRED 1875 36 Maldon Essex

I do not have a subscription and I am not having luck finding who he is living with ( too many Alfred Souths in Maldon )

There are too many Souths all round !

Thanks for trying , its driven me round the bend already ;-)

I think he really must be Alfred Albert E South whose father was Joseph Henry who married Rosetta Handling.

what is the occupation given for Joseph Henry on the marriage certificate ( or was he deceased? )

in 1881 Joseph was a labourer ... born in Wickham Essex, as was Rosetta

Deaths Sep 1882
South Rosetta 41 Lambeth 1d 244

but for Joseph H I don't see a death ...

Deaths Sep 1908 ?
South Joseph 72 Camberwell 1d 368

Unfortunately it just says deceased :-( :-(

and 'deceased' would fit with the death I posted, which fits with the Joseph in the 1881 census with son Alfred ..........

do you not really think this is the right family ?

I am also curious whether anyone has any thoughts about that Elizabeth F Iveson marriage just earlier in 1912 ... or can find any trace of either the bride or the groom in that marriage, before or after the marriage ...

Maybe this is the other Elizabeth F Iveson/Ireson

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Births Dec 1879
Ireson Elizabeth Florry - W. Ham 4a 24



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Marriages Jun 1912
Ireson Elizabeth F - Starkings - Guildford 2a 188

good! that solves that mystery

the marriage info at freebmd actually does say

Marriages Jun 1912
Ireson Elizabeth F Starkings Guildford 2a 188
Iveson Elizabeth F Starkings Guildford 2a 188
STARKINGS James Iveson Guildford 2a 188

and I think usually it is the second entry that is the correction ( I guess that is so when it is a correction to page numbers ) so that was how I read it but it was the other way around :-)