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Hi Mel thanks for that Joseph would not of been on the 61 census as he was not born until june or maybe july, but that is the rest of the family. Thanks once again Carol.

I have to go out now bt will look in later.

Mel

1851 England Census
about William Mather
Name: William Mather
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret Mather
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Grest, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Everton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 140
Piece: 2189
Folio: 62
Page Number: 29
Household Members: Name Age
William Mather 32
Margaret Mather 32
James Mather 15
Mary Mather 12
Williams Mather 10
Margaret Mather 5
Mark Mather 3
Elizabeth Mather 8 MO

Right found them in 1861 and William is down as an Ostler which would be to do with horses. They are living at 4 Court 3 Cable st. Trouble is there is no Joseph????????????? I am now wondering if there were two William's and Margarets???

1861 England Census
about William Mather
Name: William Mather
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Mather
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 4 Court no 3 Cable St.

Occupation: Ostler

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 214
Piece: 2672
Folio: 69
Page Number: 42
Household Members: Name Age
William Mather 42
Elizabeth Mather 41
Margaret Mather 16
Mark Mather 13 ************ 1848
Elizabeth Mather 10 1851
John Alfred Mather 8 1853
Alice Mather 2 1859

Erin is right here they are on IGI.

1. MARY MATHER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 06 MAY 1838 Cockerham, Lancashire, England

2. WILLIAM MATHER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 14 MAR 1841 Cockerham, Lancashire, England

But I can't find Elizabeth's?

Carol...William Mather and Margaret Bagot (1838) also had 2 children Reg.in Lancaster (Ellel)
Mary b 1838
William b 1841

Check out Lancaster (Lancs BDM)

Maybe it's one we will never know, i am pretty sure that they are both about the same Joseph as it fwould be to much of a coincidence fot their to be 2 Josephs with parents William & Margaret all living in Cable St

You may very well be right about the date for when the 'penalty' came in - It was just something which occured to me as an explanation, but probably not correct at that time.

I cannot understand why the birth date should be different though - I can understand them getting confused about the year, 5 years later, but the birthdays are usually remembered correctly?

Dea x

HI Mel i don't think the 1841 is right as the marriage in 1838 states grooms father Mark Mather .

Have to feed the hubby!

Dea ws'nt that penalty brought in in 1875 and Joseph was born in 1861?

Thanks Dea i was thinking as the baptism was 5 yr after the birth they may have been a bit confusd, maybe got dates mixed up.

This is them on the 1841 census living at Houghton St with his parents and their first dau Elizabeth.

1841 England Census
about William Mather
Name: William Mather
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Prescot
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Prescot
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 516
Book: 13
Folio: 39
Page Number: 28
Household Members: Name Age
John Mather 45
Elizabeth Mather 45
Thomas Mather 20
Peter Mather 15
William Mather 20
Margaret Mather 25
Elizabeth Mather 1

HO107; Piece 516; Book: 13; Civil Parish: Prescot; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 4; Folio: 39; Page: 28; Line: 24;

William's occ looks like Tailor? His father is a Labourer

Thanks Mel they are the dates on the baptism but his birth cert says16-july just was not sure which is likely to be the most accurate.

Just a thought Carol.

I am sure someone will correct me if I have got this wrong but I seem to remember that at that time you had something like 6 weeks after the birth in which you had to register it.

If you were late I believe there was a fine.

It is therefore possible that they 'moved' the actual birthdate a little so that they would not be fined.

The baptism therefore would be more likely to give the true birth date?

However, the father's differing occupation concerns me a little - I will have a 'little explore'.


Dea x

Hmm I don't really know but it could just be a transcription error is someone could'nt read the writing properly??

This is from IGI on the Family Search site which is free to search.

JOSEPH MATHER Pedigree
Male


Event(s):
Birth: 11 JUN 1861

Christening: 25 JUN 1866 Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM MATHER Family
Mother: MARGARET


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Messages:
No source document or additional information exists.

Extracted birth or christening record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

WILLIAM MATHER Pedigree
Male Family

Marriages:
Spouse: MARGARET BAGOT Family
Marriage: 07 FEB 1838 Cockerham, Lancashire, England


Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.

Thanks for the repls Mel yes that is them, which date is more likely to be accurate

in the 1871 census father was a lock labourer

Parents marriage

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about William Mather
Name: William Mather
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1838
Registration district: Lancaster
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume Number: 21
Page Number: 241



******Margaret Bagot Jan-Feb-Mar 1838 Lancaster Lancashire

Robert Marsden Jan-Feb-Mar 1838 Lancaster Lancashire

******William Mather Jan-Feb-Mar 1838 Lancaster Lancashire

Sarah Woodhouse Jan-Feb-Mar 1838 Lancaster Lancashire