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Ummm I see barbara has a tree on ancestry and mentions that she has purchased a couple of birth certs which are wrong.

Barbara said she had found Ellen working as a servant on the 1911 but her tree says mother is Ellen born 1863??? is that a guess? as this family are living in Manchester in 1911

agreed jax and a tailor is not a labourer

but if Ellen was orphaned young she might not have known her father or his occupation at all and 'labourer' was just a standard answer ...


edit we posted at almost the same time, check my John Scott on page 1 at the bottom :-)

I would think this is the birth of Ellen with parents of John and Ellen

Births Mar 1891 (>99%)
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SCOTT Ellen W.Derby 8b 531

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amazingly only one of the John Scotts in Liverpool in 1891 is a labourer ( another is but he is 16 )

Name: John Scott
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Catherine Scott
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool

Civil parish: Liverpool

John Scott 28 dock labourer
Catherine Scott 25
Francis Scott 5
John Scott 2


I am unable so far to find them in 1901 ... wondering whether John died, Catherine remarried ... no luck though e.g. looking for Francis with mother Catherine ...


or this could be that Catherine's death, the age is a good match

Deaths Mar 1897
Scott Catherine 32 Liverpool 8b 78


I would get the 1892 birth certificate mentioned to get the parents' names and at least try to trace that person because the date of birth is a perfect match

This is the one you found

1911 census - household transcription
Person: MYERS, Lester
Address: 17 Seymour Road Liverpool


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MYERS, Lester Head Married M 40 1871 Draper And Outfitter Liverpool Lancs VIEW
MYERS, Minnie Wife Married
15 years F 40 1871 Liverpool Lancs VIEW
MYERS, Mabel Daughter Single F 13 1898 School Liverpool Lancs VIEW
MYERS, Alexandra Daughter Single F 11 1900 School Liverpool Lancs VIEW
MYERS, Kathleen Daughter Single F 6 1905 School Liverpool Lancs VIEW
ELLISSON, Louisa Boarder Widow F 73 1838 None Davreen Poland Resident VIEW
SCOTT, Ellen Servant Single F 19 1892 Domestic Servant Liverpool VIEW

Seems Ellen is still with her mother on this 1911

1911 census - household transcription
Person: SCOTT, Ellen
Address: 29 Hoyle St Fairfield St London Road Manchester



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SCOTT, Ellen Head Widow F 47 1864 Vest - Maker Tailor Limerich Ireland Resident VIEW
SCOTT, Thomas Son Single M 18 1893 Fitters Apprentice Liverpool Lancashire VIEW
SCOTT, Ellen Daughter Single F 20 1891 Machinist Liverpool Lancashire VIEW
SCOTT, Mary Daughter F 14 1897 School Liverpool Lancashire VIEW
SCOTT, Margaret Daughter Single F 12 1899 School Liverpool Lancashire VIEW
BENSON, Henry Nephew Single M 42 1869 Labourer General Limerick Resident Ireland VIEW
HEFFERNAN, Margaret Boarder Single F 28 1883 Machinist Limerick Resident Ireland VIEW
HEFFERNAN, Alice Boarder With Mother F 1 1910 Manchester Lancashire VIEW

Barbara, the only way to see what's on a birth certificate is to buy it. Some local offices, if they're inclined, might check the father's details for you.

... and the 1891:

SCOTT, John Head Married M 20 1871 Tailor Liverpool
SCOTT, Ellen Wife Married F 28 1863 Tailoress Limerick Ireland
SCOTT, Jas Son Single M 10 1881 Scholar Limerick Ireland
SCOTT, Ellen Daughter Single F 0 (4M) 1891 Liverpool
SCOTT, Eliz Mother Married F 56 1835 House Keeper Liverpool

Registration District: West Derby
Sub District: West Derby (Municipal)
Enumeration District: 3
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Jude
Civil Parish: West Derby
Municipal Borough: Liverpool

Address: 29, Jubilee Street, West Derby, Liverpool County: Lancashire

** John's occupation doesn't match that of the marriage certificate. Would a tailor have become a labourer?

Full details of that 1901:

SCOTT, Ellen Head Married F 38 1863 Tailoress Limerick Ireland
SCOTT, Ellen Daughter Single F 9 1892 Liverpool Lancashire
SCOTT, Thomas Son Single M 8 1893 Liverpool Lancashire
SCOTT, John Son Single M 6 1895 Liverpool Lancashire
SCOTT, Mary Daughter Single F 4 1897 Liverpool Lancashire
SCOTT, Maggie Daughter Single F 2 1899 Liverpool Lancashire
SULLIVAN, Martin Nephew Married M 26 1875 Corporation Labourer Limerick Ireland
SULLIVAN, Elizabeth Niece Single F 21 1880 Southport Lancashire
SULLIVAN, John Nephew Single M 2 1899 Liverpool Lancashire

Registration District: Liverpool
Sub District: Islington
Enumeration District: 16
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Annes
Civil Parish: Liverpool

Address: 21, Springfield Street, Liverpool County: Lancashire

Ellen senior is shown as married so husband must still be alive somewhere.

1891 census, 29 jubilee st, west derby, liverpool
john scott age 20 tailor born liverpool head of house
ellen scott age 28 wife born limerick
jas scott age 10 scholar born limerick
ellen scott age 0 born liverpool
eliz scott mother of john age 56 born liverpool

mother ellen scott born limerick ireland

there's aa ellen scott age 9, 21 springfield street liverpool 1901
mother ellen
brothers thomas and john
sisters mary and maggie
mother is head of the house
so father is either away or has died

Is there any way of finding out who the father's name is on that birth certificate without having to order the certificate incase it is the incorrect one?

there's an ellen scott born liverpool 1892
jan to march quarter
vol 8b
page103

I know that Samuel Lunt was from Liverpool, not sure about Ellen though.

The witnesses at her wedding were James Wirrow and May ( or Mary) Jane Fitzgerald or Fitzyuald, not sure about the spelling of her last name.

snap

I have looked on the 1911 Census and I THINK that she was living at 17 Seymour Street, Liverpool, as a Domestic servant at the home of Lester and Minnie Myers.

She was married on 11th April 1925 at St Peters Chruch, Everton, Liverpool, and she died on 28th July, 1957, at Newsham General Hospital, Anfield, Liverpool
The marriage and death information I know for sure.

Death also in Liverpool:


England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005

Name: Ellen Lunt
Birth Date: abt 1892
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1957
Age at Death: 65
Registration district: Liverpool North
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 121

Who are the witnesses on the cert?

So they married in Liverpool - is that were they were both from?

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1925
LUNT Samuel F Scott W. Derby 8b 640
Scott Ellen Lunt W. Derby 8b 640