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Thankyou Marie - I have now sent for the marriage certificate so I am keeping my fingers crossed that the father's name appears.

Marjori - the marriage certificate won't give his mother's name, just the father's (if known). The witnesses could be useful, though.

Hello Everyone

Yes I am going to send for ARTHUR'S Marriage Certificate, like you say if he was born before his mother married his father's name may not be on the record, but it should say the mother's full name.

Regarding TINSLEY the place this was just on his army record, I have now looked on the map & the only Tinsley is near to Rotherham. I have now looked up Tyldesley & it is in this area in Lancs so I will search again.

Marjorie ......... did you read any of the information posted here and do you have any thoughts about any of it ?

Marie Celeste asked about his marriage certificate, do you have it ? even if he does not name a father it could be worth knowing who the witnesses were etc.

I wonder whether getting the birth certificate for Walter Evans might tell you anything, possibly he was Caroline's son as well



What is Tinsley near Bolton ? The only Tinsley I see in censuses is in Yorkshire ...


http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GENBRIT/1999-10/0941102312

Can anyone confirm the existence of a place called Tinsley, Lancs.
I have encountered it on the 1851 Census, but suspect that it may be a misprint for Tyldesley
If "Tinsley" does exist then it may well be in or near Warrington

My grandmother, living in Little Hulton, Lancs, affectionately called Tyldesley "Tinsley Bongs" - as did others in the area.



Tyldesley with Shakerley is in Leigh reg dist

there is this birth

Births Jun 1882
Evans Arthur Leigh 8c 299



ps I have a great-uncle born in April 1884 according to his attestation papers that I have never found a record of either ! and his parents were married by then :-)

I found Arthur Evans & Annie Pritchard on the 1911 census

On the Attestation for the Militia it gives his birthplace as TINSLEY, NR BOLTON & his age as 21 years 11 months.

The record is signed by Arthur and dated March 1904 which makes him born about April 1882.

His mother obviously had him before she married because she is given on the record as Mrs C. HAMER.

His residence in 1904 is given as WELSHPOOL, Montgomeryshire.

There does not seem to be any record of his birth.

Births Sep 1879
Evans Walter Llanfyllin 11b 234

Births Jun 1875
Evans Alice Llanfyllin 11b 245
or
Births Sep 1875
EVANS Alice Llanfyllin 11b 227


oh look

Births Dec 1883
Hamer Arthur Herbert Llanfyllin 11b 182

registered the same quarter as the Evans Hamer marriage

.... but there are other Hamer events in the Llanfyllin reg dist ....
and rats that one probably married 1907 Holywell ... yes there are three Arthur H Hamer deaths in the index which match with the three births in the 1880s so that would not be him I guess

deleted ! how about 1881 ?

Name: John Evans
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Evans
Gender: Male
Where born: Llandrinio, Montgomeryshire, Wales

Civil parish: Llandrinio
County/Island: Montgomeryshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: Butchers Row
Occupation: Labourer (General)

Registration district: Llanfyllin

John Evans 52
Mary Evans 49
John Evans 19
George Evans 8
Alice Evans 5
Walter Evans 2


I might bet that all three of the young children are really grandchildren ( Walter says grandson in 1891 )

Umm - details a bit further up the page :-)

Marjorie, if you don't already have it I'd strongly recommend you get a copy of his marriage certificate to see if it says anything about a father:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1904
Evans Arthur Robert Llanfyllin 11b 357
Pritchard Annie Maria Llanfyllin 11b 357

Think this has a chance to be Arthur with Martha & Caroline's parents in 1891:

EVANS, John Head Married M 65 1826 Agricultural Labourer Llandysilio Montgomeryshire
EVANS, Mary Wife Married F 60 1831 Llandrinio Montgomeryshire
EVANS, Walter Grandson M 11 1880 Scholar Llandrinio Montgomeryshire
EVANS, Arthur Grandson M 8 1883 Scholar Llandrinio Montgomeryshire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registration District: Llanfyllin
Sub District: Llansaintffraid
Enumeration District: 7
Ecclesiastical Parish: Llandrinio
Civil Parish: Llandrinio

Address: Sarnwen, Llandrinio, Four Crosses County: Montgomeryshire

** Could birthplace have been given as where they lived?

This family in 1861 has the right names but girls ages are a bit out. The district is where Arthur Robert is in 1911:

EVANS, John Head Married M 31 1830 Agr Lab Llandysilio Montgomeryshire
EVANS, Mary Wife Married F 29 1832 Agr Lab House Keeper Llandysilio Montgomeryshire
EVANS, Caroline Daughter Unmarried F 9 1852 Scholar Llandysilio Montgomeryshire
EVANS, Martha Daughter Unmarried F 7 1854 Scholar Llandysilio Montgomeryshire
EVANS, Mary Daughter Unmarried F 4 1857 Scholar Llandysilio Montgomeryshire
EVANS, John Son Unmarried M 0 (5W) 1861 Montgomery Llandysilio
BROWN, George Brother In Law Unmarried M 19 1842 Mason Journeyman Montgomery Llandysilio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registration District: Llanfyllin
Sub District: 2 Llansaintffraid
Enumeration District: 7
Civil Parish: Llandrinio

Address: Rhos, Llandrinio County: Montgomeryshire

Just putting Arthur in 1911 here for reference:

EVANS, Arthur Robert Head Married M 29 1882 Bricklayer Finsley Llancastshire
EVANS, Annie Maria Wife Married 7 years F 32 1879 Shropshire Westbury
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registration District: Llanfyllin
Sub District: Llansantffraid
Enumeration District: 8
Parish: Llandrinio

Address: Penthryn Cottage Penrhos Llanymynech County: Montgomeryshire

Chrissie!! you beat me to it, my thought exactly.

Have a hunch that if we could find Caroline and Martha's family then there's a chance that Arthur may well be with them in later census.

Trouble is, there's so many Evans!

that's what I meant Marie Celeste :-)

but Evans and Hamer were married before his birth ...


Births Mar 1888
HAMER John Robert Bolton 8c 326

but Alfred ? not to mention Arthur !


edit ... I wonder whether Alfred was really maybe sister Martha's child for example

Marjorie - we're not finished yet!

Chrissie - I think the reason Alfred was lower down the pecking order in 1891 was because he was really an Evans and not a Hamer. He's got his "real" name in 1911.

That marriage is odd - wonder if Caroline went astray a bit at some time, hence Alfred's surname?

From Lancs OPC
Marriage: 22 Dec 1883 St John the Baptist, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Henry Hamer - 26 Spinner Bachelor of Turton, Bradshaw
Caroline Evans - 27 Domestic Servant Spinster of West Bank Street
Groom's Father: Thomas Hamer, Bleacher
Bride's Father: John Evans, Farm Labourer
Witness: John Murray; Mary Ann Murray, (X)
Married by Licence by: W. Nuttall Vicar
Register: Marriages 1873 - 1891, Page 119, Entry 238
Source: LDS Film 1885670: Manchester Central Library Archives & Local Studies MFPR 118

Maureen

Thanks for all the replies - this gives me something to delve into

Caroline in 1881?

CROMPTON, Ellis Head Married M 52 1829 Paint & C Merchant & Ale Brewer Bolton Lancashire
CROMPTON, Martha Wife Married F 45 1836 Bolton Lancashire
CROMPTON, Joseph R Son Single M 25 1856 Brewer Bolton Lancashire
CROMPTON, Robert A Son Single M 23 1858 Assist Brewer Bolton Lancashire
CROMPTON, John W Son Single M 21 1860 Commercial Clerk Bolton Lancashire
CROMPTON, William H Son Single M 18 1863 Scholar Bolton Lancashire
CROMPTON, Elizabeth A Daughter Single F 15 1866 Scholar Bolton Lancashire
CROMPTON, Charles Son Single M 13 1868 Scholar Bolton Lancashire
CROMPTON, Henrietta Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar Bolton Lancashire
CROMPTON, Ellis Junr Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar Bolton Lancashire
>>EVANS, Caroline Servant Single F 24 1857 Gen Dom Serv Montgomery Montgomeryshire Wales
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registration District: Bolton
Sub District: Little Bolton
Civil Parish: Little Bolton

Address: 183, Chorley New Rd, Little Bolton County: Lancashire

here is the family in 1891 ?

... deleting because everybody beat me to the 1891 and the marriage :-)


if Alfred was an Evans then Caroline would have had to remarry between the two births but the marriage was earlier ... but it is slightly unusual for the older Alfred to be in the list after the younger John

Hall Lane goes right through the Moses Gate country park - in 1891 she is at numbers 140 & 142. BUT I can't find an Arthur Robert with her.

Likelihood is that he was born before she married and she left him with family.

1891:

HAMER, Henry Head Married M 33 1858 Green Grocer Bradshaw Lancashire
HAMER, Caroline Wife Married F 34 1857 Ruabon Wales
HAMER, John R Son M 3 1888 Farnworth Lancashire
HAMER, Alfred E Son M 4 1887 Farnworth Lancashire
EVANS, Martha Sister In Law Single F 32 1859 Domestic Servant Ruabon Wales
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registration District: Bolton
Sub District: Farnworth
Enumeration District: 1
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Johns
Civil Parish: Farnworth

Address: 142 & 140, Hall Lane, Farnworth County: Lancashire