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Thanks Linda, will do this at the end of the week. Have meant to but have been caught up in hospital visits with mum. been great talking to some people who know of James Woods and his family. Cant thank you and everyone enough for the help! :-)

Hi Regina...

Just wondering if you have contacted Stockport Heritage Library as mentioned in my previous posting....they are your best source for finding any information re newspaper reports, death notices, obits etc..

Email [email protected]

Wellington Road South, Stockport. SK1 3RS
T: 0161 474 4530

As well as the Chron there is also the Stockport Express.

Linda

Not yet, Sue!


not sure what the morning will bring ;-)

Hi Regina

I do not think it strange for a man to be a Coal miner then a Publican as my own Grandfather did just that .

In his younger days he was a Coal Miner in South Wales then went on to run a pub with his Wife ,from then he went into making concrete blocks to build houses.

I hope your Certs come back correct for you.........don't you just love this Genealogy :-D

Good morning Sylvia Hope you are not Snowed in ;-)

Suex

Hi Regina :-)


That little shack ............ is actually a tiny church, with no electricity or services, out in the country in northern British Columbia

......... it's the most wonderful place to go for Carol Service on Christmas Eve, when 100 or more people cram into a space for 40-50.


Hope you sort the Wood from the Woods, end get those others down from the branches!



sylvia

Oh Sylvia, wherefore art thou! .....been years since we communicated! miss your sense of humour, it's so dry and that little icon showing a shack in the middle of nowhere surely indicates you have been used to foraging the undergrowth for broken shoots that indicate ancestors walked this or that way! ha ha!...actually it looks like your house so better shut up!.....its a place however, I would love to live in rather than having to accept Peak District spring water as our only heritage.

Yes think James was probably poorly and retired to a pub, in fact he could well have burrowed his way from the mine in Wigan straight through to the pub cellar if he was 'gagging' for a gill.! the plot thickens and I think I will have an 'eye opener' sooner, rather than later, if in the event, the Woods was once a 'Wood' before he married Alice or something daft like that. Incidentally, our Cundiff side of the family are quietly jogging up and down on the branches of our family tree doing naff all, and so are the Barbers...they could at least drop a hint this way to help me out.
Contacted the G.R.O. first thing this morning to tell em I had put James Woods name down by error instead of John the son. They said sorry cant amend anything that has already gone through the system. Alas....

Actually, I could see someone being lucky enough to be a miner, then become a publican


a pub was often a very small place!

But if he was injured, and could no longer go underground, and managed to scrape together some money, or persuade someone to accept him as manager of a pub.


To me, it seems a bigger stretch to become a greengrocer ......... but stranger things have happened!



sylvia

Hello to all, there is so much here you have helped me with - Thank you to ALL of you for your attention and help...it has not been taken for granted.

I have already discovered the information for the Barber/Cundiff family and hope this has not inconvenienced anyone, though much to my dismay, I spent what was the first part of family research, (way back) imagining the people living with the Barber family in Stockport, were actually born during the birth years stated. It was only much later, I realised the ages were well out and I had to start over. The same family were esconsed in their family run pub in Sutton on the same night of the census, with different ages - A very good, informative lesson for me regarding enumerators predispositons (incidentally, has anyone ever researched an ancestor and found their occupation to be that of 'Enumerator'?? there's a thought!)

I have this evening sent off for the birth cert for John Woods Wigan 8c 76
and hope this is the right one...

it will say his dad's occupation was a 'Coal Miner' I am sure, and it still makes me wonder how he went on to be a 'Publican' and finally by the year 1906 when he appears to have died, a 'Greengrocer' - has anyone any thoughts on this? I hope you dont think me ignorant regarding miners' work, but surely having spent years working down a mine one would be physically of poor health to become a publican...I wonder if a relative died, and left something for his father James to leave this work and take a deep breath and own a pub.? I do know of course the industrial revolution took people away from their roots to the city and so am thinking it could be to do with work stopping in Wigan and Lancashire calling...Ince Wigan coming under Cheshire I think then....

I have sent off for the death certificate for John Woods March 1941 Vol 8a 197, and can now only wait to see what these two certificates reveal. (actually just paid online and realised I have written James on the death request and not John as his christian name! so that's going to be fun trying to sort that out Regina! :-(

The James Woods Baptism will be something I will order soon, and until I hear back from G,R.O. I guess I must wait now. I am thrilled to have his parents names however, so may start looking them up too! thank you everyone for helping......

1881 Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
James WOODS Head M Male 26 Neston, Cheshire, England Coal Miner
Alice WOODS Wife M Female 26 Ince, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth WOODS Daur Female 6 Ince, Lancashire, England Scholar
James WOODS Son Male 4 Ince, Lancashire, England
Al... WOODS Daur Female 1 Ince, Lancashire, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 32 Petticoat Lane
Census Place Ince In Makerfield, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341903
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3777 / 116
Page Number 50
Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Hindley
ED, institution, or vessel: 33

http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/streets/street.php?opt=streets&az=p&street=2743


Seems I didn't go back far enough - I've ammended my earlier post by adding these 2:
1874 WOODS Elizabeth Ellen Hindley Wigan & Leigh TAYLOR HNDL/52/500
1876 WOODS James Hindley Wigan & Leigh TAYLOR HNDL/58/147


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

This b.rego is the one with the mum's MS=Taylor
Births Dec 1886 (>99%)
Woods John Wigan 8c 76

It would indicate John was most likely born in the last 4 m of 1886.
This would make his age 4, 14 and 24 on the next 3 censuses.
It would make his age 22 on his wedding day, and make his age 54 in March 1941.

Deaths Mar 1941 (>99%)
Woods John 55 Stockport 8a 197

I've not seen the 1891 image - Ancestry's transcribed age is clearly rubbish.

I would believe that John was rego'ed within 6 w of his birth, as required by law, and that his parents didn't try to pass off a kid aged between 9m and 2 y old as a new-born.
I've seen plenty of WW1 attestations, and I would trust the b'day, but not the year of birth.
As for his age at death being off by one year - even if the informant knew his exact d.o.b., I would guess there's at least a 30% chance they would stuff up calculating his age.

Marriages Mar 1878 (>99%)
Barber George Macclesfield 8a 178
CUNDIFF Sarah Macclesfield 8a 178
SLACK Sarah Jane Macclesfield 8a 178
WALTON George Macclesfield 8a 178

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1876 to 1880
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BARBER George CUNDIFF Sarah Prestbury, St Peter Cheshire East 1074/24/77

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
1878 CUNDIFF Joseph Rainow Cheshire East RAI/9/78
1880 BARBER James Edward Hazel Grove Stockport CUNCLIFF HAZ/16/53
1882 BARBER Ralph William Stockport First Stockport CUNDIFF ST1/91/14
1885 BARBER Elizabeth Stockport First Stockport CUNDIFF ST1/96/56
1887 BARBER Walter Stockport First Stockport CUNDIFF ST1/101/91
1888 BARBER Sarah Stockport First Stockport CUNDIFF ST1/105/59
1891 BARBER Jane Stockport First Stockport CUNDIFF ST1/111/33
1894 BARBER Martha Stockport First Stockport CUNDIFF ST1/120/59

1881 Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
George BARBER Head M Male 23 Siddington, Cheshire, England Carter
Sarah BARBER Wife M Female 21 Higher Sutton, Cheshire, England
Joseph BARBER Son Male 3 Rainow, Cheshire, England
James BARBER Son Male 1 Marple, Cheshire, England
James BARBER Father W Male 56 Siddington, Cheshire, England Farm Labourer
James BARBER Brother U Male 21 Rainow, Cheshire, England Farm Labourer
Jane BARBER Sister U Female 19 Wilmslow, Cheshire, England Hat Trimmer (Hatter)
Ralph CUNDIFF Father In Law M Male 48 Higher Sutton, Cheshire, England Farm Labourer
Susannah CUNDIFF Mother In Law M Female 43 Higher Sutton, Cheshire, England Washerwoman
James CUNDIFF Bro In Law U Male 24 Higher Sutton, Cheshire, England Carter
Elizabeth CUNDIFF Sister In Law U Female 27 Higher Sutton, Cheshire, England Cotton Operative (CM)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 17 Ward St
Census Place Stockport, Cheshire, England
Family History Library Film 1341833
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3478 / 140
Page Number 2
Registration district: Stockport
Sub-registration district: Stockport First
ED, institution, or vessel: 21


Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1849
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
CUNDIFF Ralph SLACK Susanna Prestbury, St Peter Cheshire East 1074/7/142

A possible baptism for James Woods b1854 Neston can be found on the Cheshire Parish Register Database which covers the Neston area...

James Woods baptism 25/09/1854
Parents are James and Sarah Woods...occupation of father is a Collier.

http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb/


You may also think of contacting Stockport Library to see if they have an obituary or any possible articles etc in local newspapers of John's death in 1941. The staff are extremely helpful. The library's email address is...

[email protected]

On the Cheshire BMD site there is a possible Stockport birth for Elizabeth Barber in 1885 mother's maiden name is Cundiff.

There is also an 1880 birth for a possible James Edward Barber (as witness on the marriage cert) mother's maiden name given as Cuncliff. Possible mistranscription of mother's maiden name which may again possibly suggest that Elizabeth and James Edward were siblings.

http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/index.php

Linda

Hello to All...

On John Woods Marriage Certificate it states:
Parish Church Stockport 9 August 1909

John Woods 22yrs: Bachelor: Occupation : Van Man
Address: 29 King Street East
Father: James Woods ('Deceased) occupation: Greengrocer

Elizabeth Barber 24yrs: Spinster: Occupation : Winder
Address: Pearson's Yard, Chestergate
Father: George Barber Occupation: Carter

WITNESSES: JAMES EDWARD BARBER and ANNIE WOODS

His Widowed mother was Alice I think because there is in the 1911 census an Alice living at the above address with her children
Annie Woods b: 1880
Alice Woods b: 1891
May Woods b: 1894

John having married in 1909 went to live in Gee Street Stockport with his new wife.

John is found in his Attestation Papers as :
JOHN WOODS NO: L/9439 R.F.Artillary

There appear to be 6 pages, but there are more 12 pages where half way through it states the year of birth as 1885? I think this is he, unless the papers have been mixed up as they are in bad condition.

John died on 26th March 1941 aged 55yrs 'as a result of an accident on the railway'

I was in the middle of typing this when had to 'break off the typing' sorry, so am a little tired now and will post this and return tomorrow....but I do believe he was born in 1885 though he stated his age as 22? will check the war records again to make sure its not mixed with another john woods. Thanks for reading this and helping with your suggestions. :-)

Re "Also son John is clearly born in 1887"
Well, OK - weren't they lucky when they rego'ed John's birth early to beat the new years rush that John later turned out to be a boy, otherwise they'ld wind up with a daughter named John.

Births Dec 1886 (>99%)
Woods John Wigan 8c 76



Using http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1873
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
WOODS James TAYLOR Alice Christ Church,Ince Wigan & Leigh C19/2/69

Here's the Woods-Taylor births from Hindley subdistrict thru 1887 - that's as far as they've gotten adding the mum's MS to the index. The
[NB there might be other Woods-Taylor couples in Hindley.]

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
1874 WOODS Elizabeth Ellen Hindley Wigan & Leigh TAYLOR HNDL/52/500
1876 WOODS James Hindley Wigan & Leigh TAYLOR HNDL/58/147
1879 WOODS Annie Hindley Wigan & Leigh TAYLOR HNDL/67/29
1881 WOODS Albert Hindley Wigan & Leigh TAYLOR HNDL/72/237
1882 WOODS Joseph Hindley Wigan & Leigh TAYLOR HNDL/74/83
1884 WOODS Peter Hindley Wigan & Leigh TAYLOR HNDL/81/234
1884 WOODS Wilfred Hindley Wigan & Leigh TAYLOR HNDL/82/413
1886 WOODS John Hindley Wigan & Leigh TAYLOR HNDL/88/359

who were the witnesses on the marriage cert. Does it give his age on there?

1911 for ref if this is the one you are looking at, think it might be Carter not Caster and also says Baker

Reg. District: Stockport Sub District: Stockport First
Parish: Stockport Enum. District: 6
Address: 24 Gee Street Stockport
County: Cheshire

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
WOODS, John Head Married M 24 1887 Caster Lancs Ince
WOODS, Elizabeth Wife Married
2 years F 26 1885 Winder Spinning Cheshire Stockport

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
about John Woods Name: John Woods
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Age at enlistment: 29
Birth Parish: St Helens
Birth County: Lancaster
Document Year: 1914
Regimental Number: 20346
Regiment Name: St Helens Battalion South Lancs Regt
Number of images: 10

Regina

If this is the man who's Military records you are going by he married an
Elizabeth Leyland 1913.
I cannot see another John Woods bn 1885 military records .....on Ancestry anyway.

How did you get back to John Woods bn 1887, not sure you are researching the correct one

As Sylvia said you must have the correct year of birth for John to go back further.

Suex :-S

Regina


do you have the birth certificate to show when John was born?

Because that is the only way to be sure how old someone is

This may be where you may be going wrong.


The census shows the AGE of a person on Census night. The modern-day transcriber had translated that age into a year of birth

The year shown may be as much as 2 years out from the "real" year.

It all depends on the date the census was held vs the actual date of birth.


This is why you should always search on birth year +/- 2 years

In fact, the older a person is, the more I will search on birth year +/- 5 years ........ 'cos people didn't always get their ages right.



If anything, I would take the birth year shown on his attestation papers as being more accurate than the census.



sylvia

I think this is more probable as parents for James bn 1854.
Father and son both Collier Miners

1871 England Census
about James Woods Name: James Woods
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Woods
Mother's Name: Sarah Woods
Gender: Male
Where born: Lit Neston, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Ince in Makerfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Ince in Makerfield
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Hindley
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 139
Piece: 3892
Folio: 96
Page Number: 25
Household Members: Name Age
James Woods 56
Sarah Woods 53
John Woods 18
James Woods 16
Sarah Woods 14
Mary Ellen Woods 10
Thomas Jones 17

Birth year out but.....

1881 England Census
James Woods
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Mary Woods
Gender: Male
Where born: Macclesfield, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Macclesfield
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street Address: 5 Market Place

Occupation: ****Grocer & C*****

Registration district: Macclesfield
Sub-registration district: West Macclesfield

Mary Woods 67
James Woods 36
John Thomas Woods 28
Pauline Mould 16
George Barton 39

Misty x