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I think I will order that death cert. I will also get the 2nd marriage certificate to make sure they married in 1918. If they are both correct then Frederick was a bigamist. It seems unlikely they divorced.

Well,at least they picked something that started with a "H"!! :-D :-

Maureen

If that was her in the workhouse could this be her

Deaths Mar 1921 (>99%)
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Hopcroft Elizabeth 55 Kensington 1a 195

Thank you everyone who has helped me this morning. I've lots to think about today while I do my housework!

I have the 3 baptisms for Jessie, Louisa and the brother that died Henry William. I have no idea where Harris came from except it's a common name. From the marriage I found in 1918 Ellens maiden name was Cooper, which is funny as that's my married name now.

Hi Maureen

Well I did not found anything remotely like the family

Does look very good though.

Did a quick check on baptisms and not found any matches under the name of Harris

Maureen

Ooops,sorry,Sophie! I type too slowly!
You're welcome.

Good luck!!

Maureen

That seems like the only solution,GB!

Maureen

Thank you very much Maureen. I have had a look at the original and it definitely is Harris. Not sure where to go to now. It looks like he abandoned Elizabeth. I need to find out when she died. Maybe as Mike said Elizabeth ended up in the workhouse as she had nowhere else to go.

Thank you so much everybody who has helped. I am very appreciative and would never in a million years have found them.

Births Jun 1901 (>99%)
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HOPCROFT Thomas Allen Hendon 3a 239



Would be interesting to see what the address is on this birth cert ?

This certainly does look interesting! Why would they call themselves Harris unless they were hiding? You are very clever to have found this! It makes it a bigger mystery than before. It must be them - my Frederick was a painter too! Too big a coincidence.

It does say Harris on image

But all the names match especially with Thomas being 10 days old

Good chance that is them

I can't seem to open the image but this family looks interesting:
1901 census transcription details for: 78, Fortune Gate Road, Willesden
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 1214
Folio: 80
Page: 24
Reg. District: Hendon
Sub District: Willesden
Parish: Willesden
Enum. District: 8
Ecclesiastical District: St Matthew Willesden
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 78, Fortune Gate Road, Willesden
County: Middlesex
HARRIS, Frederic Head Married M 32 1869 Painter (House)
Paddington, London
HARRIS, Ellen Wife Married F 21 1880
Westminster, London
HARRIS, Jessie Daughter F 13 1888
Marylebone, London
HARRIS, Louisa Daughter F 6 1895
No Kensington, London
HARRIS, Frederic Son M 1 1900
Willesden, London
HARRIS, Thomas Son M 0 (10 DAYS) 1901
Willesden, London
WOOLFORD, Kate Boarder Married F 34 1867 Charwoman
Hampshire
WOOLFORD, Mary Daughter F 5 1896
Willesden, London
WOOLFORD, Frederic Son M 8 1893
Brighton

Maureen

I have Jessie's birth cert. She was born 6 May 1888.

??
Name: Jessie Elizabeth Hopcraft
[Jessie Elizabeth Hopcroft]
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1888
Baptism Date: 10 May 1888
Father's Name: Frederick William Hopcraft
Mother's name: Eliza Ann Hopcraft
Parish or Poor Law Union: St John´s Wood St Mark
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers



Name: Jessie Elizabeth Hop?roft
[Jessie Elizabeth Hopcroft]
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1888
Registration district: Marylebone
Inferred County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 573

Is this daughter Jessie ? ( in which case you're dates are a bit awry)

Births Mar 1894
Hobcraft Jessie Elizabeth - Lambeth 1d 370

--------------------------

There is a Jessie Hopcraft born 1888 but wrong initials

Births Dec 1888
HOPCRAFT Jessie S M - St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 417

The 1911 census is the correct one. Charlotte was known as Louisa. My mother told me that Frederick did remarry and have children and Jessie and Louisa went into service. Ellen apparently didn't like them very much, but that is hearsay.

Frederick was born in Kensington in 1865.

Which one ????


Births Dec 1859 -
HOPCRAFT Frederick William - Kensington 1a 60

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Births Sep 1865 -
HOPCROFT Frederick William - Kensington 1a 5

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Births Dec 1865
Hopcraft Frederick William - Aylesbury 3a 457

1911 presume this family

Name: Frederick William Hopcroft
Age in 1911: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Marylebone, London, England
Civil parish: Isleworth
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address: 20 May Villa, Byfield Road, Isleworth, Middx
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Painter
Registration district: Brentford
Registration District Number: 128
Sub-registration district: Isleworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 232
Piece: 6811
Household Members: Name Age
Frederick William Hopcroft 45
Ellen Hopcroft 32 - Westrminster
Louisa Charlotte Hopcroft 16 - Marylebone
Frederick Joseph Hopcroft 11 - Willesden
Thomas Allen Hopcroft 10 - Willesden
Alice Jane Hopcroft 8
Nellie Hopcroft 7
Jack William Hopcroft 5
George Henry Hopcroft 3



OR NOT

wrong birth year for Louisa Charlotte

Frederick not mentioned in original request