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I am trying to find my g grandparents. My g father FREDRICK JAMES TURNER married MARY ANN KLUNKER in 1898 showing his father as STANLEY POINTS TURNER (dec) solicitor, but his sister FANNY TURNER who married WILLIAM RAINBOW in 1896 showed their father as FREDERICK TURNER (dec) lawyer! I have been unable to locate Frederick or Fanny's birth certificates, although I have Frederick's death certificate which shows he died in 1925, together with two of his younger sons in tragic circumstances. Ring any bells?!!

Welcojme to the boards Penny.

Can you tell us please what area they were living and then we may be able to help.

Mel

hi do you have dates of birth and place

Here they are.


View Record Mary Ann E Klunker Apr-May-Jun 1898 Holbron London
View Record Frederick James Turner Apr-May-Jun 1898 Holbron London


Mary ann's birth.

Name: Mary Ann Eleanor Klunker
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1874
Baptism Date: 12 Apr 1874
Father's Name: Franzman Klunker
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Klunker
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hoxton St John
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Registers

Found their marriage and I see William George Rainbow was a witness.

For ref.

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Mary Ann Elenor Klanker
Name: Mary Ann Elenor Klanker
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Spouse Name: Frederick James Turner
Spouse Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Apr 1898
Parish: Pentonville St Silas
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Francis Herman Klanker
Spouse Father Name: Stanley Points Turner
Register Type: Parish Register

1911 census transcription details for: 18 Marlborough Road Upper Holloway
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National Archive Reference:

RG14PN810 RG78PN28 RD10 SD2 ED11 SN77
Reg. District: Islington
Sub District: Upper Holloway
Parish: Islington
Enum. District: 11
Address: 18 Marlborough Road Upper Holloway
County: London
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
TURNER, Frederick James Head Married M 38 1873 Tram Conductor London England Holloway
TURNER, Mary Ann E Wife Married
12 years F 37 1874 Hoxton
TURNER, William James Son M 10 1901 Highbury Islington
TURNER, Edward Albert Son M 8 1903 Highbury Islington
TURNER, Ethel Francis Daughter F 9 1902 Highbury Islington
TURNER, Stanley Herbert Son M 6 1905 Highbury Isling

They'd already lost 2 children by now.

1911 England Census
about Frederick James Turner
Name: Frederick James Turner
Age in 1911: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil parish: Islington
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 18 Marlborough Road, Upper Holloway
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: TRAM CONDUCTOR
Registration district: Islington
Registration District Number: 10
Sub-registration district: Upper Holloway
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Piece: 810
Household Members: Name Age
Frederick James Turner 38
Mary Ann E Turner 37
William James Turner 10
Edward Albert Turner 8
Ethel Frances Turner 9
Stanley Herbert Turner 6

Marriages Jun 1896 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fitzpatrick Michael Holborn 1b 1330
Hackett Catherine Beatrice Holborn 1b 1330
>>>>>>RAINBOW William George Holborn 1b 1330
>>>>>>Turner Fannie Holborn 1b 1330

Regards Vera

1891 England Census
about Frederick J Tarner
Name: Frederick J Tarner
[Frederick J Turner]
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Isabella Tarner
Gender: Male
Where born: St Pancras, London, England

Civil parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:


Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington South West
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 152
Folio: 48
Page Number: 7
Household Members: Name Age
Isabella Tarner 57 1834 Norwich Norfolk***************WIDOW CHARWOMAN
Frederick J Tarner 18
Fanny Tarner 17

Fannie Turner
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Spouse Name: William George Rainbow
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 24 May 1896
Parish: Pentonville St Silas
Borough: Islington
Father Name: Frederick Turner
Spouse Father Name: Eli Rainbow
Register Type: Parish Register



Regards Vera

Mel good find.

Regards Vera

1891 Census Household RecordHousehold Information
Address 11, Girdlestone Road
Parish Islington
District Islington, Upper Holloway
Administrative County London

Householder 1
Name James Clark
Age 48
Estimated Year of Birth 1843
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation Painter
Birth Place Dorchester
Birth County Dorsetshire

Householder 2
Name Mary Clark
Age 47
Estimated Year of Birth 1844
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Occupation Laundress
Birth Place Malvern
Birth County Worcestershire

Householder 3
Name Susan Mary Clark
Age 19
Estimated Year of Birth 1872
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Laundress
Birth Place Burton
Birth County Dorsetshire

Householder 4
Name Frederick Turner
Age 20
Estimated Year of Birth 1871
Relationship to Head of Household Visitor
Occupation
Birth Place Holloway
Birth County London

I have found both childrens baptisms as they were baptised together.

Parents are Isabella and Hillary Turner and Fred was born on 2nd July 1872 and Fanny 24th Feb 1874.

The father Hillary is a draper.

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Fanny Turner
Name: Fanny Turner
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1875
Baptism Date: 5 Apr 1875
Father's Name: Hillary Turner
Mother's Name: Isabella Turner
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras Old St Pancras
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

1881 England Census
about Isabella Turner
Name: Isabella Turner
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: ...Sham, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Islinston
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 104 Sussex Rd
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Domestic Servant

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington East
ED, institution, or vessel: 80b
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 274
Folio: 115
Page Number: 27
Household Members: Name Age
Fredk. Wallis 63
Sally Lanagan 65
Augusta Wallis 59
Isabella Turner 42 Domestic Servant Widowed

Well I think that Fred her brother was put down on the marriage of Fanny. I had that in my family too but I am interested to find Hillary their father and am wondering if his name was heard wrong and put down as Stanley.

Frederick James was born 2 July 1872 and fanny was 24 Feb 1874.
Their address at their baptism was 4 Burton st.

1871 census transcription details for: Hanover Place, Marylebone, London
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 177
Folio: 61
Page: 17
Reg. District: Marylebone
Sub District: Christchurch
Parish: Marylebone
Enum. District: 15
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: London
Address: Hanover Place, Marylebone, London
County: London, Middlesex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
CARRE, Hilary Head M 35 1836 Channel Islands
TURNER, Isabella Visitor F 32 1839 Norfolk
TURNER, Victoria F 30 1841 Norfolk


Ahh, this Hilary is a draper, unmarried, from St Peter's Port. The ladies are from Snettisham, Norfolk. Both unmarried.

1861 census transcription details for: 76, Hauteville, St Peter Port
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 4383
Folio: 33
Page: 19
Reg. District: Guernsey
Sub District:
Parish: St Peter Port
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: Guernsey
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 76, Hauteville, St Peter Port
County: Guernsey and Adjacent Islands
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
CARRE, Thomas Head Married M 54 1807 Retired Draper
St Peters Port, Guernsey
CARRE, Maria Wife Married F 52 1809
St Peters Port, Guernsey
CARRE, Elizabeth Daughter Unmarried F 29 1832
St Peters Port, Guernsey
>>CARRE, Hilary Son Unmarried M 25 1836 Drapers Assistant
St Peters Port, Guernsey
CARRE, James Son Unmarried M 23 1838 Druggist Assistant
St Peters Port, Guernsey
CARRE, John A Son Unmarried M 20 1841 Drapers Assistant
St Peters Port, Guernsey
CARRE, Frances Daughter Unmarried F 21 1840
St Peters Port, Guernsey




1851 census transcription details for: 60, Hauteville, St Peter Port
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 2530
Folio: 534
Page: 28
Reg. District:
Sub District:
Parish: St Peter Port
Enum. District: 6
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 60, Hauteville, St Peter Port
County: Guernsey and Adjacent Islands
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
CARRE, Thomas Head Married M 42 1809 Draper & Tailor Employg 13 Men 3 Ap & 2 Females
St P Port, Guernsey
CARRE, Maria Wife Married F 41 1810
St P Port, Guernsey
CARRE, Thomas Son Unmarried M 20 1831 Draper's Shopman
St P Port, Guernsey
CARRE, Elizabeth Daughter Unmarried F 19 1832
St P Port, Guernsey
CARRE, Hillary Son Unmarried M 15 1836 Draper's (Shop Boy)
St P Port, Guernsey
CARRE, James Son M 13 1838 Druggist's Ap
St P Port, Guernsey
CARRE, Frances Daughter F 11 1840 Scholar
St P Port, Guernsey
CARRE, John A Son M 9 1842 Scholar
St P Port, Guernsey
CATTS, Amies Servant Unmarried F 20 1831 House Servt
St P Port, Guernsey



1841 census transcription details for: High Street, St Peter Port, Guernsey
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1460
Book/Folio: 12/4
Page: 2
Reg. District:
Sub District:
Parish: St Peter Port
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Guernsey
Address: High Street, St Peter Port, Guernsey
County: Guernsey and Adjacent Islands
Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
CARRE, Thomas M 30 1811 Isle of Guernsey
CARRE, Maria F 30 1811 Isle of Guernsey
CARRE, Thomas M 10 1831 Isle of Guernsey
CARRE, Elizth F 9 1832 Isle of Guernsey
CARRE, James M 3 1838 Isle of Guernsey
CARRE, Hillary M 5 1836 Isle of Guernsey
CARRE, Francis F 2 1839 Isle of Guernsey
MITCHELL, Celia F 25 1816 Isle of Guernse

Hmmmm

I thought as much. A made up father.