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I have the marriage certificate of Abraham Armstrong and Elizabeth Richardson they married 23 Jan 1850 in Liverpool. Problem is that their ages are stated as full on the certificate so are having difficulties locating there birth and in census. Abraham's father is John Armstrong a Victualler and Elizabeth's father is Joseph richardson a Labourer. By 1856 they are in Australia as their daughter Jane is born there.

Heather What was Abraham's profession when he married? Kay

Kay, Abraham was a cabinet maker. Oops forgot that bit.

This chap is a cabinet maker 1841: Abraham Armstrong Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821 Household: View other family members Gender: Male Civil parish: Liverpool Hundred: West Derby County/Island: Lancashire Source information: HO107/563/11 Registration district: Liverpool Sub-registration district: St Martin ED, institution, or vessel: 21 Folio: 16 Line number: 25 GSU Number: 438715 other household members: >>>View Record Abraham Armstrong abt 1821 Liverpool Lancashire, Cabinet maker. View Record Joseph Hetherington abt 1821 Liverpool Lancashire View Record Ann Jackson abt 1801 Liverpool Lancashire View Record Ellen Mather abt 1751 Liverpool Lancashire View Record James Mather abt 1801 Liverpool Lancashire, cotton spinner. View Record Mary Mather abt 1791 Liverpool Lancashire All born out of county. Libby :))

Hi Lady Liberty, Yes I think this is Abraham. This makes him 29 when he marries. This makes it difficult find a birth if he was born in 1821 and I don't know where and I can't find them in the 1851 census.

Heather is there an address on marriage cert???

Heather I couldn't find them in 1851 either - is there a chance they had already left for Aus? Kay

Lady Liberty, Addresses are given as Pall Mall for Abraham and Rathbone Square for Elizabeth. Kay it is highly possible that they got married and then went to Australia. But I haven't found them on any passenger lists as yet I still trawling through them. Thanks for the help ladies I thought I was going blind. Heather

Found this on the IGI -- My family also came fform Cumberland to Liverpool about this time ABRAHAM ARMSTRONG Male ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: Christening: 24 SEP 1819 Brampton, Cumberland, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: JOHN ARMSTRONG Family Mother: MARGARET

Thankyou Kay, Liverpool seemed to be the destination for alot of people at this time. Maybe for the work and the a departure point for new lands. Heather

This chap is a Inn keeper...wife is Margaret too! 1851; John Armstrong Age: 68 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1783 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Margaret Gender: Male Where born: Abbey, Cumberland, England Civil parish: Brampton Town: Brampton County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Registration district: Brampton Sub-registration district: Hayton ED, institution, or vessel: 1a Household schedule number: 4 Address; Market Place, Pack Horse Inn. Household Members: Name Age John Armstrong 68 Margaret Armstrong 61 place of birth not stated. William Armstrong 19 Brampton, Cumberland. I can't make out his occupation. Who are the witnesses on marriage cert?? 1861: John Armstrong Age: 79 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1782 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Margaret Gender: Male Where born: Kelnhill, Cumberland, England Civil parish: Brampton Town: Brampton County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Street address:Back street. Registration district: Brampton Sub-registration district: Brampton ED, institution, or vessel: 4f Household schedule number: 56 Household Members: Name Age John Armstrong 79 formerly a farmer Margaret Armstrong 73 born Spadeadam, Cumberland

Agree I found that one to and there is no sign of Abraham 1819 Brampton in 1841 census other than the one you found, All wishful thinking but still K

Lady Liberty, This is getting interesting. Heather

Kay, The witnesses on Abraham and Elizabeth's marriage certificate are John Taylor and Margaret Ann Richardson. Heather

Just to through another spanner in - from the IGI - based on a search of Elizabeth Richardson's with a father Joseph for the whole country -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Richardson Female -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: Christening: 24 JAN 1818 Brampton, Cumberland, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: Joseph Richardson Family Mother: Mary Ellison

Good grief, They come from the same town. The plot thickens. Heather

Heather, this looks like Abraham's family in 1841, there are Taylor's in the same household too... 1841: John is a Publican. No address on image... John Armstrong Age: 55 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1786 Gender: Male Where born: Cumberland, England Civil parish: Brampton Hundred: Eskdale County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Source information: HO107/167/11 Registration district: Brampton Sub-registration district: Brampton ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Folio: 13 Page: 21 Line number: 14 GSU Number: 241281 View Record Barbra Armstrong abt 1827 Cumberland, England Brampton Cumberland View Record Elizabth Armstrong abt 1829 Cumberland, England Brampton Cumberland >>View Record John Armstrong abt 1786 Cumberland, England Brampton Cumberland View Record Joseph Armstrong abt 1826 Cumberland, England Brampton Cumberland. Occupation shoe ????? >>View Record Margaret Armstrong abt 1791 Cumberland, England Brampton Cumberland View Record Margaret Armstrong abt 1826 Cumberland, England Brampton Cumberland View Record William Armstrong abt 1831 Cumberland, England Brampton Cumberland View Record George Taylor abt 1841 Cumberland, England Brampton Cumberland View Record Jane Taylor abt 1816 Cumberland, England Brampton Cumberland View Record Margaret Taylor abt 1839 Cumberland, England Brampton Cumberland All born in county with exception to margaret and George Taylor.

This looks like John Taylor, Abrahams witness, his wife Jane Taylor in 1841 could be Abraham's sister.. 1851: Jane Taylor Age: 36 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815 Relation: Wife Spouses's Name: John Gender: Female Where born: Brampton, Cumberland, England Civil parish: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address:looks like 257 Scotland Road... Registration district: Liverpool Sub-registration district: St Martin ED, institution, or vessel: 1aa Household schedule number: 310 George Taylor 10 Lpool, Lancashire Jane Taylor 36 Brampton, Cumberland John Taylor 41 Brampton, Cumberland, I can't read his occupation.. Margaret Taylor 12 Lpool, Lancashire Lib

Lady Liberty, Thankyou it looks like this is Abraham's family. Particularly since John Armstrong is a publican. Heather

assuming Elizabeth and parents are also from Cumberland, i found this in 1851: Joseph Richardson Age: 60 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Caldbeck, Cumberland, England Civil parish: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address:28 Gilbert strret. Registration district: Liverpool Sub-registration district: St Thomas ED, institution, or vessel: 1h Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 166 Household Members: Name Age Elen Margules 7 visitor Edward Richardson 8 Liverpool Hannah Richardson 13 Dearham, Cumberland James Richardson 24 is a Black maker Gilcrux, Cumberland Joseph Richardson 60 is a general porter.Caldbeck, Cumberland Mary Richardson 53 Bockmont, Cumberland Nancy Richardson 22 Confectioner? Gilcrux, Cumberland William Richardson 19 is a Boat ???????? Gilcrux, Cumberland