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I'm trying to find the record of a marriage in Hitchin between Thomas Branson and Mary Ann Smith, should be about 1876-8. Cannot find a correct record online, and would like to get the reference to order copy certificate. Many Thanks, Susan

Did you get the wife's maiden surname from the birth cert of one of their children? Which online records have you searched? Reg

What about this one ?? Mary Ann Smith Year of Registration: 1878 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Hitchin County: Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire Volume: 3a Page: 469 Thomas Ransom 1878 Jul-Aug-Sep Hitchin Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire Mary Ann Smith 1878 Jul-Aug-Sep Hitchin Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire

Reggie, Yes, the wife's maiden surname was from my grandfather's birth certificate, and I have searched ancestry, freebmd and familysearch.org, which lists a marriage between them on the IGI in 1876 in Hitchin, but this is the only place I can find it, and I think I have found their first child born with the surname 'Smith' in 1877. Any help gratefully received. Susan

Presume this is the marriage from the IGI Thomas Branson Male Family Parents: Father: Thomas Branson Family Mother: Sarah Slinn Marriages: Spouse: Mary Ann Smith Family Marriage: < 1876> <Hitchin, Hertford, England> It is a member submitted entry - and therefore its accuracy is in doubt. DO NOT RELY ON IT.

Elaine, I did think that this was correct, but have since received a copy of this certificate and both ages are wrong Thomas' was 10 years out! Also he is the only one who has signed his name (all the others have put an 'x') and he has written 'Thomas Ransom' surely if he was going to write his own name he would have spelt it correctly? Or maybe not! Any other suggestions? Susan

Would this be the couple with their young family: 1881 England Census Record about Thomas Branson Name: Thomas Branson Age: 38 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Mary A. Gender: Male Where Born: St Neots, Huntingdon, England Civil parish: St Helen County/Island: Berkshire Country: England Street address: Ock Street Condition as to marriage: Married Occupation: Parchment Maker Registration district: Abingdon Sub registration district: Abingdon ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Household Members: Name Age Arthur Branson <<< 6 months old on original Mary A. Branson 29 Thomas Branson 38 Thomas Branson 3 William Branson 2

Deborah, Yes, this is correct, but any ideas about the marriage details? Thanks, Susan

Complete Ancestry - nothing for 1876 Will check 1877 & 1878

1877: Apr/may/jun TOM BRANSON Peterboro 3b 333 1878 nothing

Susan on the MC that you regard as the wrong one.........what names and occupations does it give for BOTH fathers? Perhaps by going backwards we may find them. There seems to be NO Thomas Ransom in Hitchin in 1881........

Deborah, Thomas' father is Thomas Branson and the certificate says 'deceased' and his occupation was Sawyer, all this seems correct. Mary Ann Smith's father is shown as William Smith, and his occupation was labourer. I thought that her father was Samuel Smith, but I may be wrong it is very difficult to pin down her family on any census before she married (1861 or 1871). Mary Ann did have a sister, Elizabeth, who married Richard Cooper, and one of the witnesses was Elizabeth Cooper, so this looks good. So really the stumbling blocks are mary's father and both their ages. Many thanks for helping. Susan

hmmmmmmmmm my gut instict is that you DO have the right certificate..... I have had my fair few of exaggerated ages on MC's......... the fact that you have too many matches on the MC 'cept for the ages is GOOD. Possibly your Mary & her sis Elizabeth ( Betsy ) in 1861 the family next door to them are COOPERS: 1861 England Census Record about Mary Smith Name: Mary Smith Age: 9 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852 Relation: Daughter Father's name: William Mother's name: Hanah Gender: Female Where born: Hitchin, Hertfordshire, England Civil parish: Hitchin County/Island: Hertfordshire Country: England Registration district: Hitchin Sub-registration district: Hitchin ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Household schedule number: 52 Household Members: Name Age Betsey Smith 14 Daniel Smith 4 Emma Smith 7 Hanah Smith 52 Mary Smith 9 Sarah Smith 24 William Smith 48

Do you really think so, even with his name being wrong? I must admit it is a bit of a coincidence now you have found a Smith family next door to a Cooper family, I have not seen that before. Susan

Yes even with his name being wrong........there is just no marriage on the complete Index for the couple 3 yrs either side of 1876. Copled with your witness Elizabeth Cooper nee Smith............ Have you managed to obtain their births? here is the COOPER family: View Record Rebecca Cooper Thomas abt 1822 Luton, Kent, England Wife Hitchin Hertfordshire View Record Thomas Cooper Rebecca abt 1800 Hitchin, Hertfordshire, England Head Hitchin Hertfordshire View Record Thomas Cooper Thomas, Rebecca abt 1855 Chatham, Kent, England Son Hitchin Hertfordshire

Many thanks for the Cooper information, but is there anything on the same census to show a Richard Cooper born in Stevenage in 1853, I'm surprised he is not with his parents? Susan

yes: 1861 England Census Record about Richard Cooper Name: Richard Cooper Age: 9 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852 Relation: Son Father's name: Arthur Mother's name: Sarah Gender: Male Where born: Stevenage, Hertfordshire, England Civil parish: Hitchin County/Island: Hertfordshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Hitchin Sub-registration district: Hitchin ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 83 Household Members: Name Age Arthur Cooper 37 Arthur Cooper 11 James Cooper 2 Richard Cooper 9 Sarah Cooper 40 William Cooper 14

Birth: England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983 Record about Thomas Branson Name: Thomas Branson Year of Registration: 1842 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: St Neots County: Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Huntingdonshire Volume: 14 Page: 225

Not sure what the connection between the 2 Cooper families was, but I guess there must have been one. Going back to Mary Ann Smith's birth, no I haven't definitely identified her birth, there are at least 2 Mary's born in Hitchin in each of 1851 and 1852, so don't know how to narrow it down except spending money on birth certificates that could be wrong. Any ideas? Susan

A good tip given to me last week as I had this same problem is to request they match them against FATHERS/MOTHERS name . This way if the fathers name or mothers names do not match they only charge you £3 .......... if they match you'll be forwarded the certificate and pay the full £7............