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Thank you all so very much for your help. Gerry :))))))))))))))))))))))

1901. Alice Chennell abt 1896 Clerkenwell, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell London ................Chas Chennell abt 1864 Clerkenwell, London, England Head Clerkenwell London Edith Chennell abt 1897 Clerkenwell, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell London Florence Chennell abt 1889 Clerkenwell, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell London Henry Chennell abt 1886 Clerkenwell, London, England Son Clerkenwell London .............Lucy Chennell abt 1860 Battersea, London, England Wife Clerkenwell London Rose Chennell abt 1893 Clerkenwell, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell London

1891. Emma Chisnell abt 1845 St Luke, London, England Sister Shoreditch London Robert W Chisnell abt 1853 St Luke, London, England Head Shoreditch London Robert is now a Dock Labourer. 1901. Still unmarried. Emma Chennell abt 1845 St Luke, London, England Sister Shoreditch London Robert W Chennell abt 1853 St Luke, London, England Head Shoreditch London

1851. With Emma's Mother Hannah, whole family of Pipe Makers here. Image does look like Robert not Richard. Hannah Puddiport abt 1795 Isle of Wight Head St Luke Old Street Middlesex Robert Bernard abt 1803 Isle of Wight Brother St Luke Old Street Middlesex Richart Chiossel abt 1823 N Son-in-law St Luke Old Street Middlesex Emma Chiossel abt 1821 London, Middlesex, England Daughter St Luke Old Street Middlesex Emma Chiossel abt 1845 London, Middlesex, England Granddaughter St Luke Old Street Middlesex Hannah Chiossel abt 1843 London, Middlesex, England Granddaughter St Luke Old Street Middlesex Elizabeth Ann Chiossel abt 1851 London, Middlesex, England Granddaughter St Luke Old Street Middlesex George Bishop abt 1830 London, Middlesex, England Son St Luke Old Street Middlesex William Bishop abt 1831 London, Middlesex, England Son St Luke Old Street Middlesex Ann Bishop abt 1834 London, Middlesex, England Granddaughter St Luke Old Street Middlesex Henry Bishop abt 1847 Margaret, Kent, England Grandson St Luke Old Street Middlesex John Philips abt 1824 London, Middlesex, England St Luke Old Street Middlesex Surname First name(s) District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Mar 1844 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- .............>BISHOP Emma Marylebone 1 176 BOXALL James Carr Marylebone 1 176 ..............>CHISNELL Robert William Marylebone 1 176 RUDING Ellen Marylebone 1 176 SEARLE Thomas Marylebone 1 176

1871. Emma Chemell abt 1820 Sepulchre, London, England Wife St Andrew Holborn London Emma Chemell abt 1845 St Luke, London, England Daughter St Andrew Holborn London Robert Chemell abt 1823 Strafford, Suffolk, England Head St Andrew Holborn London Robert Chemell abt 1853 St Luke, London, England Son St Andrew Holborn London Charles Chimell abt 1863 St Luke, London, England Son St Andrew Holborn London Robert is a Tobacco Pipe Maker.

1861 16 Summers Street Tabacco Pipe maker Emma Chisnell abt 1820 St Sepulchere, Middlesex, England Wife Holborn St Andrew Middlesex Robert Chisnell abt 1823 Suffolk, England Head Holborn St Andrew Middlesex Robert W Chisnell abt 1853 St Lukes, Middlesex, England Son Holborn St Andrew Middlesex

1881? Head is a Widow & Tobaco Pipe Maker Charles is a Carman William is a Tobaco Pipe Maker Charles Chiswell abt 1863 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England Son 11 Gt Bath St, Clerkenwell, London, England Emma Chiswell abt 1846 St Lukes, Middlesex, England Daughter 11 Gt Bath St, Clerkenwell, London, England Robert William Chiswell abt 1861 St Lukes, Middlesex, England Son 11 Gt Bath St, Clerkenwell, London, England William Robert Chiswell abt 1824 Shafford, Suffolk, England Head 11 Gt Bath St, Clerkenwell, London, England

Is this Charles in 1891 Chas Chiswell abt 1863 Clerkenwell, London, England Head Clerkenwell London Florence Chiswell abt 1889 Clerkenwell Daughter Clerkenwell London Henry Chiswell abt 1887 Clerkenwell Son Clerkenwell London Lucy Chiswell abt 1862 Battersea, London, England Wife Clerkenwell London

Gerry Here's that marriage info you needed (Charles/Lucy Emily): Name: Charles Chisnell Year of Registration: 1883 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Shoreditch County: London, Middlesex Volume: 1c Page: 284 There are only two women on the same page - an EMILY SHOBELL and ANNIE MANCHESTER. It's probably Emily he married...(you had Lucy Emily...)

Gerry Do you have the birth cert of Charles then? If so and it says his mother was Emma then I've no idea who Sarah was - unless that was a middle name she was using to avoid confusion with her daughter. Yes, I guess without knowing the mother's actual age (if she was born 1821 as per 1851 census, she would have been 42 when giving birth to Charles - not too old for those times - women were having kids right into their 50s or whenever menopause started for them). I would definitely keep this family to the forefront and do a little more research on them. There is a death cert for a Robert William Chisnell in 1888 Shoreditch aged 65 yrs (giving the 1823 birth year you already have) - if you haven't got that already it might be worthwhile getting it to see if there are any clues for you on there - where he was living, who the informant was etc. I would also follow up all of the children from the above family through the census records - that can sometimes help in piecing things together.

Esta My dates were originally from family and i have confirmed them on the BMI Index. Charles and Henry both registered in Holborn Gerry :-))

Esta Sorry, I missed your earlier post............. No i dont. You got something? Gerry :-))

Do you have Charles / Lucy MC ?

Thanks Athena To be honest I forgot I had found this lot in 1851. Have been so mired in finding ANYTHING else they went clean out of my head (I put it down to my age!)................ Unfortunatley, without any other info i have no way of confirming this is the rite lot for the strat of the dynasty! And Emma would have have been relatively old to have had Charles in 1863, but who knows. Gerry :-))

And from the 1861 CENSUS - a bit of a puzzle for you! Emma Chisnell abt 1841 Hillingdon, Middlesex, England Daughter Hillingdon Middlesex Harriet Chisnell abt 1844 Hillingdon, Middlesex, England Daughter Hillingdon Middlesex Robert Chisnell abt 1806 Langley, Buckinghamshire, England Head Hillingdon Middlesex Robert Chisnell abt 1852 Hillingdon, Middlesex, England Son Hillingdon Middlesex Sarah Chisnell abt 1811 Denham, Buckinghamshire, England Wife Hillingdon Middlesex James Hooley abt 1837 Hagburn, Buckinghamshire, England Lodger Hillingdon Middlesex This looks like the same family - but a different wife and the children's ages are a few years out, although the birthplaces are correct and names tie in with previous 1851 family. It looks as though he's even forgotten how old he is himself as he now says born 1806! What do you make of this?

Gerry Yes, the census page definitely says his age is 40 yrs, occ labourer. So I guess he married Emma later than normal 21yrs. Could have been a second marriage for him I suppose. Regards

This is the nearest I could find to your couple: 1851 CENSUS Emma Chisnell abt 1821 Hillingdon, Middlesex, England Wife Hillingdon Middlesex Emma Chisnell abt 1849 Hillingdon, Middlesex, England Daughter Hillingdon Middlesex Harriett Chisnell abt 1849 Hillingdon, Middlesex, England Daughter Hillingdon Middlesex Robert Chisnell abt 1811 Hillingdon, Middlesex, England Head Hillingdon Middlesex William Chisnell abt 1847 Hillingdon, Middlesex, England Son I will just check the original page to make sure his age is correct on there...one mo!

Hi Janet. I have tried every variation I can think of for every year from 1851 to 1901. I just cannot believe they avoided the census EVERY time! LOL Gerry :-))

so you don't even have have Charles / Lucy on 1891 or 1901 ? are your dates from certs ? Do you know WHERE charles and Henry were born ?

Sometimes on the census the surname is spelt differently. Try looking at different ways a surname could have been spelt. My search for Cairey turned out to be recorded as Carey. McKenzie was recorded as MacKenzie. Allistone was recorded as Alliston. c.1800 - There was much illiteracy. c.1900- surnames often were spelt differently. Hope this might help you. As it took me ages to search for my family until I realised the spellings were different. Janet