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A big thankyou for all your help at last have something to go on. thanks again tracey

So James married Lillian, then Elizabeth? In which case, that marriage was also after 1920. You will need to trawl the register. It's free on Ancestry http://www.ancestry.*co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx

yes yes yes that is correct Birth Jun 1895 Standen James Edward Holborn 1b 683 --------------------------------------- Marriage Dec 1917 Standen James E Mccarthy Lilian Islington.1b 499 Not that one, but may be related. Child of that marriage Birth Dec 1919 Standen James A mother - Mccarthy Islington.1b 549 that was my grandfather

Birth Jun 1895 Standen James Edward Holborn 1b 683 --------------------------------------- Marriage Dec 1917 Standen James E Mccarthy Lilian Islington.1b 499 Not that one, but may be related. Child of that marriage Birth Dec 1919 Standen James A mother - Mccarthy Islington.1b 549

Looks like they are the same family...........If you look at the 1901 details you'll find James born 1895.

There's no other Harry Chaplin Standen born before 1920. Silly me, of course there isn't! You'll need to trawl the BMD register I'm afraid.

right thanks for all your help this is the information i have james edward standen born march 1895 he married a elizabeth not sure when. they had about 12 children but they where all born after 1901 they had a son called harry chaplin standen so think the other harry chaplin must of been an uncle. think they much be from the same family though sorry for the confusion tracey

zipper de do dah!!at least i think it is!!,.........maybe not then WILLIAM CHAPLIN STANDEN Male Event(s): Birth: 27 MAR 1830 Christening: 20 MAY 1830 Wesleyan, Tenterden, Kent, England Death: Burial: Parents: Father: ELIAS STANDEN Family Mother: CAROLINE GURR

That head William , also has the middle initial C, just going to look for his bap him in 1851 View Record Elizabeth Allen abt 1833 Rye, Sussex, England Daughter-in-law Tenterden Kent View Record Anne Haffenden abt 1777 Rye, Sussex, England Mother-in-law Tenterden Kent View Record Charlotte Standen abt 1810 Rye, Sussex, England Wife Tenterden Kent View Record Stephen Standen abt 1816 Tenterden, Kent, England Head Tenterden Kent View Record William C Standen abt 1848 Tenterden, Kent, England Son Tenterden Kent

1891 but fathers names not right Hardly travellers though(unless rotating round camberwell counts!!) Alfred Standen abt 1891 Clerkenwell, London, England Son Clerkenwell London Elisabeth Standen abt 1875 Walworth, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell London Elizabeth A Standen abt 1835 Clerkenwell, London, England Wife Clerkenwell London Ernest H Standen abt 1879 Camberwell, London, England Son Clerkenwell London Florence Standen abt 1888 Camberwell, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell London Harriett Standen abt 1884 Camberwell, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell London Harry Standen abt 1881 Camberwell, London, England Son Clerkenwell London Nellie Standen abt 1890 Clerkenwell, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell London Stephen Standen abt 1878 Walworth, London, England Son Clerkenwell London William C Standen abt 1848 Tenterden, Hampshire, England Head Clerkenwell London William G Standen abt 1877 Lambeth, London, England Son Clerkenwell London

This is the only Harry I can find in 1901..........age fits but father is William...............How do you know it is James please? Address would fit with marriage in St Georges also. Looks like it's the same as the 1891 family. Think you need the marriage certificate for fathers name. 1901 Alfred Standen abt 1891 Clerkenwell, London, England Son St Andrew Holborn and St George the Martyr London Florence Standen abt 1888 Clerkenwell, London, England Daughter St Andrew Holborn and St George the Martyr London Harriet Standen abt 1882 Camberwell, London, England Daughter St Andrew Holborn and St George the Martyr London .................>Harry Standen abt 1882 Walworth, London, England Son St Andrew Holborn and St George the Martyr London ........................>James Standen abt 1895 Clerkenwell, London, England Son St Andrew Holborn and St George the Martyr London Nellie Standen abt 1890 Clerkenwell, London, England Daughter St Andrew Holborn and St George the Martyr London William Standen abt 1847 Tenterden, Kent, England Head St Andrew Holborn and St George the Martyr London William Standen abt 1876 Lambeth, London, England Son St Andrew Holborn and St George the Martyr London

i am going to phone my sister to see if she know any of the right date thanks tracey

Birth Mar 1882 Standen Harry Chaplin Camberwell 1d 251 1891 William C Standen abt 1848 Tenterden, Hampshire, England Head Clerkenwell London Elizabeth A Standen abt 1835 Clerkenwell, London, England Wife Clerkenwell London Elisabeth Standen abt 1875 Walworth, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell London William G Standen abt 1877 Lambeth, London, England Son Clerkenwell London Stephen Standen abt 1878 Walworth, London, England Son Clerkenwell London Ernest H Standen abt 1879 Camberwell, London, England Son Clerkenwell London Harry Standen abt 1881 Camberwell, London, England Son Clerkenwell London Harriett Standen abt 1884 Camberwell, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell London Florence Standen abt 1888 Camberwell, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell London Nellie Standen abt 1890 Clerkenwell, London, England Daughter Clerkenwell London Alfred Standen abt 1891 Clerkenwell, London, England Son Clerkenwell London Birth - William Chaplin Standen 1848 Apr-May-Jun Tenterden Kent 1881 William Standen abt 1848 Tenterden, Kent, England Head 9 Avenue Rd, Camberwell, London, England 1851 Stephen Standen abt 1816 Tenterden, Kent, England Head Tenterden Kent Charlotte Standen abt 1810 Rye, Sussex, England Wife Tenterden Kent William C Standen abt 1848 Tenterden, Kent, England Son Tenterden Kent Elizabeth Allen abt 1833 Rye, Sussex, England Daughter-in-law Tenterden Kent Anne Haffenden abt 1777 Rye, Sussex, England Mother-in-law Tenterden Kent

what is your source of his parents names please?

Try this site www.rtfhs.org(.)uk remove bracket. It is a site dedicated to Romany and Gypsy origins. They have quite a lot of info on there. Good Luck

How can you be sure they were both 19 and not older???

REF FOR THE MARRIAGE Rowe, Emily 1901 September Marriages St George in the East London Surrey Standen, Harry Chaplin 1901 September Marriages St George in the East London Surrey Record Type: Marriages Quarter: September Year: 1901 District: St George in the East County: London Surrey Volume: 1c Page: 519

i do not have married cert yet but i do know his father was call james standen and his mother was called elizabeth nee tyson thanks tracey

Do you have the fathers names? Address at time of marriage and any witnesses names from the marriage certificate?

do you know fathers names ?