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The certificate came! Jane Louisa Bateman, widow, father was Richard Johnson, so the theory was right! Thanks so much for all the help you all gave, Best wishes for the Season and the New Year, Selena

Just to let you all know that I have ordered Richard Ranoe's marriage certificate for 1851. I hope that it will say Jane Bateman, perhaps formerly Johnson. Estimated Despatch date 22 Dec - will I get it before Christmas? If so do I wait for Christmas day to open it? I will let you all have feedback when the cert comes. Your help very much appreciated, best wishes to all, Selena. Couldn't get the view images thing to work at all!

As I said before, Jim, you have to look through the images on FreeBMD, which is why it took me so long. On FreeBMD's home page you choose 'View Images', and then go through the selections till you get a list of page numbers to choose from. Then you have to work out which is the right page number - that's the difficult bit! I got one that was some way before Bateman in the alphabet, jumped forward and found one that came some way after Bateman, went back a few, and so on, till I got the right one. By the way Jim, my family were very interested in that bit you copied out of the paper for me. All say to pass on their thanks. Kate.

Kate, where did you manage to get that. All the ones I tried had her name missing from the page. Jim

Yes indeedy - June 1851, marriages, Bateman, Jane Louisa, Greenwich, V, 307. There's your link (matches the one for Richard Ranoe thatMerry found earlier)! Kate.

Sorry, have been darting back and forth. Santa's little helper found these on 41 for me in Shoreditch Jane Bateman, age 25 William Bateman, age 20 William Bateman, age 3 James Bateman age 1 Looks like William died late 1840's. Just wish they wouldn't keep using the same names ! (says she 4th generation Selena, and with a daughter with middle name Selena). I cannot believe how helpful you have all been - my very grateful thanks. I have been looking for two years. I will pursue my conumdrum tomorrow - off to see daughter's school concert tonight. Wishing you all,all the best, Selena

IGI also has this christening. Same date as Richard Phillips Ranoe - above. IGI Individual Record FamilySearch™ International Genealogical Index v5.0 British Isles Search Results | Download | Pedigree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- JOHN JAMES RANOE Male -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: 26 MAR 1854 Christening: 07 MAY 1854 Saint Mary, Lewisham, Kent, England Death: Burial: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: RICHARD RANOE Family Mother: JANE LOUISA Jim

Disappointed to see nobody has looked through the images on FreeBMD yet, anyway, I'm having a look now... back when I find or don't find it.. Kate.

Deptford Jim

Thanks Jim - is that in Deptford or Rotherhithe? William Bateman was at Collier St Deptford in 61. Thank you Selena

Ricahrd's address in 1861 is 2 Holdsworth's Rents - clear in description of District 13. Jim

Kate, I think Richard Ranoe you found for 1851 was Jane and Richard's son (witnesses at William Bateman's marriage),. Feel like I'm Going round in circles! Selena

Kate, just back from getting the girls myself. Off to digest your theory (hadn't thought of that at all). Getting a bit muddled, Thanks for the help Selena

Okay, in a nutshell my theory is that Jane Louisa Bateman, nee Johnson, married Richard Ranoe after she was widowed, and then she knocked a few years off her age to confuse us. It would need somebody to check for a Jane Louisa Bateman marriage entry in Jun 1851 to match that Richard Ranoe one, but I have to go and get the kids from school now so I don't have time (as it may mean going through the images on FreeBMD). Or possibley William and Jane Bateman had a daughter named after her mother who added a few years to her age? Can't remember all the dates so don't know if this version is possible. Kate.

This must be connected somehow, but how? RICHARD PHILLIPS RANOE Male -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: 21 SEP 1851 Christening: 07 MAY 1854 Saint Mary, Lewisham, Kent, England Death: Burial: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: RICHARD RANOE Family Mother: JANE LOUISA Can't find their marriage just at the minute, but that Jane Louisa can't be a coincidence can it? Kate.

I would get a copy of the christening... ANN BATEMAN - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Birth: 18 MAR 1847 Bermondsey, London, England ANN BATEMAN - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 23 MAY 1847 Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London, England Christening just says James and Louisa on here. I did find this.... JANE LOUISA JOHNSON -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages: Spouse: JAMES WILLIAM JOHN BATEMAN Marriage: 18 AUG 1834 Spitalfields Christ Church, Stepney, London, England Extracted from source. Brother? ALFRED THOMAS BATEMAN Birth: Christening: 23 NOV 1845 Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: JAMES BATEMAN Mother: JANE

Found this Ancestral file baptism - could it be William's sister? Ann BATEMAN (AFN: 215N-J5) Pedigree Sex: F Family Event(s): Birth: 18 Mar 1847 Bermondsey, London, Engl Death: 11 Apr 1910 Parents: Father: James William John BATEMAN (AFN: BKF9-VK) Family Mother: Jane Louisa JOHNSON (AFN Could someone have got William James round the wrong way - i.e. on young William marriage cert in 1859? Is this the answer or am I clutching at straws here? Selena

Bad news. Got this reply from my order of Ann Bateman's birth cert. Thank you for your recent application for the birth certificate of Ann Bateman. The reference supplied was 1849 June Rotherhithe 4 451. Unfortunately, this reference does not appear to relate to the entry you are seeking because her parent's names are not William & Jane. Therefore,we are unable to issue a certificate. On William's marriage cert in 1859, he gives his father as William James Bateman. Not sure what to do next. Off out for a few hours, so not being rude if anyone responds. Selena

Thanks Sarah. Richard Ranoe seems to be with his mum Sarah in the 1851 at Essex Place Deptford (William Bateman living next door). Looks like Richard married Jane in 1851 - off to have a look on familysearch. William Bateman married into the Perkins family - no known connections there as the Perkins came from Hampstead. Thanks, Selena

he married either a Jane Willougby or a Mary Goody