Genealogy Chat

If her parents were dead, then it had to be HIS parents who gave consent ................. who knows the reason.

was William or Mary infirm, not of sound mind, was he not really over 21 ... the possible suggestions are limitless!

If it was William's parents, who are apparently the only ones alive at the time, who gave permission for the marriage to take place ......... could the vicar have insisted on that because of the difference in age?

William was over 21 when he married, and Mary was some 17 years his senior, both of her parents were dead by the time they married. The marriage reg only indicates "with consent of parents". The issue here is that the inference that parental consent was involved casts a question over whether the Mary Grice who married William Perkins in 1825 , is the same Mary with him on the 1841 census and who was buried in 1845.

He might have married Mary as a case of convenience ............. either from her side, or him, ie money, house.


As for marrying with consent of parents ............ do we know which parents consented??

Are you certain that they were Mary's parents, could they have been William's?

William's possible quick marriage had nothing to do with children from the first marriage, there were none. The inference is that Mary may well have been past childbearing when they married. I think it had more to do with Ann being pregnant. It is of course possible that William was not the biological father, but was coming to her rescue. I've had no comment on whether others have found cases of marriage reg entries with consent of parents mentioned where it wasn't needed. I think I am going to have to wait until the current rush is over at the GRO and get a copy of the Mary Perkins death certificate for 1845 to see if she was William's wife.

I'm not surprised that William married quickly if he had young children ........... he would need someone to look after the children while he went out to work.

It is possible that he might have hired Ann to look after the children, and that she quickly began to share his bed ...... not at all unusual.

At least one of my direct ancestors married 3 times in quick succession as wives 1 and 2 died! I think I am one of the few of their descendants (there are a LOT of ancestry trees!) who has actually taken the time to buy all the certificates to prove which wife was the mother of which child, as most of the "changes" took place between censuses! Most of the Ancestry trees are wrong.

Yes, I agree it's the wrong birth - not illegitimate in any case.
Just mentioning that Ancestry suggested it.

Lincoln is the wrong registration district

For our reference - the christening you mention:


Frances Wheatly
England, Lincolnshire, Parish Registers
Name Frances Wheatly
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 07 Oct 1840
Event Place Wellingore, Lincolnshire, England, United Kingdom
Gender Female
Mother's Name Ann Wheatly


Her death ???

WHEATLEY, FANNY 1
GRO Reference: 1842 M Quarter in GRANTHAM UNION Volume 14 Page 250



Ancestry suggests this is her birth:

Female Wheatley
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Female Wheatley
Registration Year: 1840
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Lincoln
Inferred County: Lincolnshire
Volume: 14
Page: 425

However, that child wasn't illegitimate:

WHEATLEY, - mms BILTON
GRO Reference: 1840 S Quarter in LINCOLN UNION Volume 14 Page 425

I've only seen a transcript of the 1845 marriage which doesn't indicate he that he was a widower, that said, I've learned from past experience that this is not conclusive. One of William's own brother's is shown as a bachelor when he was a widower.

I assume that William is described as a Widower on the 1845 marriage cert?

Not relevant to your query, but just because I came across it -

Anne married again:

Anne Perkins
England, Lincolnshire, Parish Registers, 1538-1990
Name: Thomas Roberts
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 14 Feb 1857
Event Place: Ropsley, Lincolnshire, England, United Kingdom
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Father's Name: William Coil
Spouse's Name: Anne Perkins
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse's Father's Name: Benjamin Wheatley

Yes, I appreciate that William might well have been in a relationship with Ann before Mary died, so that of itself doesn't disprove that the Mary buried in 1845 was William's first wife.

Yes, you have Ann found in 1841, I think the baby Frances is actually her illegitimate child. I've found a baptism @ Wellingore for such a "bastard" child as the parish register calls her. Whilst she "married in" to the Perkins family, things like that always pique my interest.

Looking to see where Ann Wheatley was in 1841 - this would appear to be her.

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Normanton, Grantham, Lincolnshire, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Benjnan Wheatley Male 50 1791 Lincolnshire, England Ag. Lab
Mary Wheatley Female 40 1801 Lincolnshire, England
Ann Wheatley Female 26 1815 Lincolnshire, England
John Wheatley Male 12 1829 Lincolnshire, England
Frances Wheatley Female 0 1841 Lincolnshire, England

Oasby/Normanton about 6/7 miles apart. No saying where she was between 1841 and 1845, but obviously met up with William at some point prior to their marriage !

William wouldn't be the first or last person to have a relationship whilst their spouse was alive. May well be that William and Ann did liaise before Mary died!

consent of parents wouldn't have been needed, and although I've just had a search and it looks like Mary's family moved from Aunsby to Oasby, there are burials for George and Ann Grice at Heydour, abode Oasby, both of them before the marriage.

The gap between the burial of Mary and marriage to Ann is a little under 2 mths, 23rd Apr to 15th Jun. The bapt of Elizabeth was 7th Dec.

mary was buried 2 months before the 2nd marriage


william would also be over 21 at time of marriage, maybe they asked consent because of the age gap

Sorry, yes I have mixed up Mary and Ann. To clarify, my problem is that the marriage register entry suggests William's first wife Mary Grice was under 21 when they married, but the baptism, census data and burial details suggest Mary was some 17 years his senior. It would also appear that Ann Weatly /Perkins was already pregnant with oldest child Elizabeth before Mary Grice/Perkins died, or was very shortly afterwards if the child happened to be a little premature. For my theory to hang together, the marriage register has to be wrong. I'm not sure how likely it is that a bride would be suggested as being under 21 and needing consent, when this was anything but the case.

I see now that it is - so I've wasted my time with that

Unsure of what exactly you're looking for.........................you refer to Ann when I think you mean Mary

I have traced a death for an Ann Perkins aged 64, burial at Heydour Arpil 1845 aged 64, the only Ann Perkins burial there between 1825 and 1845.

What is your actual query, please?

Erika, It's probably my tree on ancestry you are "quoting" from i.e Perkins Family.

From a tree on Ancestry - MAY need verification

Birth
ABT Jul 1798 • Kelby, Lincolnshire, England
2 Sources
1798

(AGE)

Baptism
02 Aug 1798 • Heydour, Lincolnshire, England
Source FreeREG

1798

Marriage
18 Jul 1825 • Heydour, Lincolnshire, England
LIncs Marriages

Mary Grice
1825

27

Death of Father James Perkins(1755–1833)
1833
1833

35

Death of Mother Elizabeth Patinson(1759–1839)
May 1839 • Heydour, Lincolnshire, England
1839

40

Residence
1841 • Haydor, Lincolnshire, England
1 Source
1841

43

Marriage
15 Jun 1845 • Heydour, Lincolnshire, England
Lincs Marriages Index

Ann Weatley
(1813–)

1845

46

Birth of Daughter Elizabeth Perkins(1845–1926)
October 1845 • Oasby, Lincolnshire, England
1845

47

Birth of Son James Perkins(1848–1920)
January 1848 • Oasby, Lincolnshire, England
1848

49

Birth of Son John Perkins(1850–)
April 1850 • Oasby, Lincolnshire, England
1850

51

Death of Brother Richard Perkins(1790–1850)
Oct 1850 • Rauceby, Lincolnshire, England
1850

52

Residence
1851 • Haydor, Oasby, and Azeby, Lincolnshire, England
Relationship: Head

1 Source
1851

53

View
Death
Sep 1854 • Oasby, Lincolnshire, England
1854

56

Burial
16 Sep 1854 • Heydour, Lincolnshire, England
freeReg

1854

56

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Sources
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1841 England Census
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1851 England Census
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Family
Parents
James Perkins
1755–1833

Elizabeth Patinson
1759–1839

Siblings
Spouse
Mary Grice
Spouse & Children
Ann Weatley
1813–

Elizabeth Perkins
1845–1926

James Perkins
1848–1920

John Perkins
1850–

PERKINS, JOHN WHEATLEY
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in GRANTHAM UNION Volume 14 Page 455

PERKINS, ELIZABETH WHEATLEY
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in GRANTHAM UNION Volume 14 Page 377