Genealogy Chat

Hello everyone,
My great great grandad Michael Thomas Lyons was Irish. On this census he was living with his son's family. His nationality is listed with the code 15X. Was this code a general one for Ireland, or a particular region?
On this census he claims he was born in Killkerrin, Galway, but on 1911 he was listed as being born in Roscommon.
I know his father was Patrick Lyons, and I'm trying to find out exactly where he was born.
Thank you.

Have you tried googling for info about census codes?

Have you tried looking for his birth or baptism?

The Irish genealogy site is FREE, as is the Irish census site which has 1901 and 1911

I have yes. There is info about the employment codes, but I can't find ones for Ireland regions/ nationality.

I would very much doubt ithere was anything more specific than “Ireland’

Oh sorry... I just checked and he died in 1912! Why on earth did they include him on the 1921 census?! The other family members' information is correct on that. I wonder if they made a mistake with his birthplace?

1911, he says born Kilkerrin if i have the right man in both censuses

I suggest you C&P transcriptions so we all know who you’re referring to

Looking at the IMAGE of 1921, the 15X is added in green, and does not conform with the requirements of the column in which it is written. I don’t think for one minute that it’s a Nationality code, as Ireland was at that time part of the UK!!!

Hi, the 1911 census says Roscommon.

He was living with his children Mary, Jack (actually called John), William (Actually James William), and Ellen (married name Allen), and Ellen's son William Allen. Address was 59 Walker Lane Derby. His marital status says single but he was widowed in 1907.

So the 1921 is a totally different man and he is on 1911 with family

Born 1848 and living in Wakefield

1911 your man is recorded as a WIDOWER, born c1861.

1901 birthplace is simply ‘Ireland’…..ditto 1891

Age varies on censuses, so you’ll have to be flexible in your searching for his baptism

But the other names on the 1921 census make perfect sense to me. They are Michael's son Thomas and his wife Mary (my great grandparents- Thomas was listed as postman on all other documents too), and their youngest children Marie and Thomas. The kids were born in Dewsbury/ Wakefield and later the family moved to Blackpool where my grandmother and her other siblings were born. The youngest son Thomas died of diabetes in 1933 (where the father is also listed as postman).

Suggest you follow the link on FMP from 1921 census to 1911

OR……..re-check the line from yourself getting proof of every step

The man in 1911 you’ve picked on married in 1883 as Michael Lyons ..NO second forename, and he’s 13 years younger than the 1921 man

The similar names of two different censuses I could understand. But what are the chances of having two different Thomas Lyons, in the same area, with the same childrens names, both being postmen? I really think it's the same person simply because of the postman connection.

Yes, you're right about the middle name- it's not on any other census or document.
Is it possible it could be a mistake by someone else in the house? They included him but got the details wrong?

Sorry, Sarah, but it’s unwise to jump to conclusions without finding proof.

Lyons is a common name - postman was a common job in those days.

Check births for MMN and then find marriages etc, etc.

If you want help, it will be willingly given on here.

Incidentally, the 1921 census records Michael Thomas Lyon’s as GRANDfather to the head of the household

Thank you for your advice! I will scratch the 1921 one then and stick to Roscommon.
Incidentally I have found a potential birth record on rootsireland for Michael Lyons, father Patrick Lyons (the fathers name is on his marriage certificate), born 1857 in Ballintubber, Roscommon.

You say Michael died in 1912.

Are you just assuming that the man below is him, or have you seen the actual death cert?

Deaths Sep 1912 (>99%)
Lyons Michael 50 Derby 7b 558


Michael Lyons
Birth
1862
Death
12 Sep 1912 (aged 49–50)
Burial
Nottingham Road Cemetery
Chaddesden, Derby Unitary Authority, Derbyshire, England
Plot
A38, 50175
Memorial ID
256469705
Gravesite Details
Age: 50, Death date listed may be the interment date

I have a copy of his death certificate. His daughter Ellen Allen was present at his death (the same Ellen Allen on the 1911 census).

Documentary evidence is always good!

There is also a Michael Lyons, dad Patrick born in Roscommon is 1862. This makes more sense if he was aged 50 when he died in 1912.
The whole thing is frustrating!

We know the feeling!
I'm sure we all have people in our trees where the trail runs cold because of lack of firm evidence.