General Chat

nudge for Shelli.

Thanx Ann

nudge in case Tricia hasn't seen this.
I sent a PM to Shelli re her post so I guess she is not around at the moment

Butt in any time plz any info is welcome!

My dad came from newtownards and i have tried every church there for their records and believe there were plenty and they were all very helpful but i cudnt trace any of them...Its frustrating to say the least!

No trace of my dad ever being born!

thanks to one of my friends she found my uncles second wife i wanted to find out more about and if she had any family
Margaret Morgan,nee Quinn,married
Kenneth Malcolm Morgan,1955 Chelsa,in 1969 they were living at
16.Glendale Drive,Wimbledon
but in 1970 my uncle died,so now have the problem of finding her,cant sit for long because of whiplash in my leg and lower half of my bottom most painful
Dutchxx

Another search engine

England Baptisms 1700-1900 ( British Isles Vital records )

http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=1473014;p=2;t=searchable

Not to be mistaken for the usual Familysearch site....this is the beta for their new search engine

Susan
x

thanks for that Susan look interesting.

Ann
glos

tried out the site but I guess it depends which areas they have covered as I can't find anything so far.

Has anyone found anything yet?

Hi Ann

I still am having trouble findin Emma Auber in 1841 with Edwin and Clara.

This next case is more an example of how ancestors disappear, but suddenly from one part of the country to another. I am not asking for any census help, etc just giving this as an example. My ggggran gave birth to an illegitimate baby in Sussex in Dec 1863. Afterwards, her and the servant father moved to London and married when the baby was 7 months old. When the baby was concieved, the father was still married but his previous wife was dying of TB and she died in November 1863 just 6 weeks before the babys birth. I think this fiasco created a scandal explaining why the parents suddenly left Sussex.

Ben

Ann

sorry, kids hijacked computer :(

Phyllis definately not dead in 1901, am fairly certain she re-marries in 1911, to Samuel Vitler ( awaiting marrriage cert to confirm, dispatch date was today so heres hoping it's in the post tomorrow.)

Divorce according to NA was in 1908, I have NO details on Albert apart from the brief mention on the NA site. I am trying to get hold of a copy of the divorce papers.

Interesting that Robert is saying he's a widower in 1901. Certainly sounds like my Robert Leach, info matches marriage cert and service record.
Robert William Dayman spent his life as Bill cos he refused to be known as Robert. He refused to have the same name as THAT man. He also blamed Robert Leach for almost killing his mother, when they'd had a row, RL locked Phyllis out and she spent the night on the doorstep. So using this info I'd always assumed they'd been married for ages. But am now finding evidence that proves that incorrect.

Rose does seem to put it around a bit doens't she?
There is no father named on RWD birth cert, and I always felt that was maybe the reason he was born in the workhouse. Will look into finding the workhouse records I think????

I know for 100% that RWD was alive in 1901, as he later married and had my Nan LOL
And I'm fairly certain Phyllis was alive, cos the entry on free BMD for the marriage in 1911 names both Phyllis Leach and Phyllis Dayman, so it sure seems like her. Will post back here once have the marriage cert.

Not sure where to look next apart from the workhouse. Any ideas???

Mystery deepens..........

Yes that is probably the reason Ben. It is a lesson to us all though not to expect relatives to be where they were in the previous census, and not to be surprised when they turn up in another county. One branch of my lot were all in Somerset. The nest thing I know two families are in Portsmouth Hants. Father and family went first, then his son and family. then to complicate matters one of the daughters married somebody from back in Somerset several years after the move.

Will have another think about young Clara.

Ann
Glos

Shelli if you can track down the workhouse records they will tell you when RWD was admitted to the workhouse, or if he was born there and if so why Phyllis was admitted and why and when they left

As you say, the plot thickens. I reckon he just declared himself a widower so he didn't have to send Phyllis any money. But I also wondered if she was already living with somebody else, although I couldn't find her. maybe if she was she didn't get herself put on the census because she was already married, adultery would have been frowned on then.

Ann
Glos

Oh yes, I did post a query about this the other day. In december 1878, my Roberts ancestors moved from Walworth London to Holborn. They had lost their money on a beer house. They applied for relief as they were destitute according to the poor law document. It says "Whether Husband, Wife of Children sen tto workhouse or asylum" and it says "Yes".

However there is a composite register of all workhouse admissions for every sort of institution in the Holborn Union which was done at the time now archived at the LMA yet there is no record of their admittance to any of the workhouses in Holborn Union. They stayed in Holborn as in 1881 they were just round the corner from their 1878 address.

Could the poor relief workhouse admission been withdrawn at the last minute or would they have been sent to a workhouse back in Walworth or Lambeth as the youngest was born in Lambeth in 1877.

The head of the household later on applied for sick relief in 1885 but whenever he was admitted on occasions, he was admitted to a local workhouse the City Road one but I am querying why I cannot find any admissions for 1878 for the family in the Holborn area yet they seemed to have stayed there after.

Ben

Ben

Ann,

Sorry again just re-read your orginal comment on this thread, without kids bellowing in my ears!!

I believe RWD was born in the workhouse cos he was illigitimate ( sp?) He was born there not admitted. Matron registered his birth.
Can think of nothing else to help find him at all. Dayman is his mothers maiden name and the name he used all his life I presumed. He certainly used when he married, he gave it to his daughters ( my Nan) And it's on death cert. I orginally thought in 1901 as he was only 3, whoever had fillled in the census returns had given him the same surname as his mum ie; Leach. But thats ovbiously now not the case.

So you think it may be possible that Phyllis is living in sin with someone, if this is that case maybe she took his surname just for the census???

Quick update before WDYTYA..... Union workhouse Sundridge, did have a lying in ward, so maybe Phyllis did enter just to give birth???
ANd I've found out where the records are held and these include - Guardians' minutes (1866-1930); Births and baptisms (1846-1932); Deaths (1866-99); Creed registers (1893-1923); Admissions and discharges (1898-1932)

All of which ( just for once) actually cover the dates I'm interested in!!!!

Just gotta work out how to search them..... another problem LOL

i think you will have to go in person. I doubt if they will be on line. The register will be in date order and should have admission and discharge on the same page. you never know it may give a clue as to where she went next.

am working on hubby, telling him I MUST go to Maidstone to the archives...... he's busy ignoring me currently :(((

Sorry...posted twice so deleted this post

Patricia

Record Type Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage 7 Jan 1898
Groom Name james MORROW
Bride Name agnes COULTER
Church Ballycopeland Presbyterian Church
Parish Donaghadee
Civil District Newtownards
County Down


Having said this......there were quite a few Agnes COULTERs but not in Newtonards......here is one birth....

Record Type Civil Birth
Date of Birth 22 Oct 1870
Name Agnes COULTER
Gender F
Fathers Name John COULTER
Mothers Forenames Sarah
Mothers Maiden Name COPLAND
Civil District Newtownards
Sub District Newtownards
County Down



and if this is one of yours......we are sort of related )))))


Record Type Civil Marriage
Date of Marriage 23 Oct 1858
Groom Name thomas MORROW
Bride Name elizabeth MCMASTER
Church Newtownards Civil Registrars Office
Parish Newtownards
Civil District Newtownards
County Down

from emeraldancesters.com....you will have to purchase the cert for more info cost = £10

The following site may be able to help.....has a good search engine but pay per view

http://ancestryireland.com/ where you can also download a free copy of 'guide to tracing Belfast ancestors'.


and another Northern Ireland free site is

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/

don't forget to look on the Ulster Covenant for names and adresses too at...... http://www.proni.gov.uk/

Thanx Susan ever so much really grateful and loads of links there brilliant......x

I came across the James and Agnes before in Newtownards but my father stated on his marriage cert that his father was Thomas..So that i think i will have to go on.. unless he had middle name Thomas and thats all my dad knew him by..

But i find no record of my dad being born but apparently that could happen as well...

Did visit a grave in Newtownards with Agnes Morrow nee Coulter buried in it but no husband just her son Thomas and grandchild...


Gosh i wish we were related coz you would be the 1st living relative we have ever met belonging to my father!