General Chat

My limited experience of wills has shown me that they bring out the worst in some people. I refer to my brother and sister in law, both of who were living comfortable lives in Oz and Switzerland. They hadn't been near their parents in a couple of decades. while my wife had been caring for them or shopping for them most days. as well as working.
On learning of the death of my FIL they quickly arrived at his house. They put MIL in a care home and sold her house so that she could not return to it. MIL had rheumatoid arthritis as well as being elderly. Two years later she died. My wife and I were there.
In her will my wife was the SOLE BENEFICIARY of her estate. This didn't go down well with in laws who made the years since less than pleasant for my wife. They even challenged the judgement of my MIL and BIL blocked it for a while delaying her funeral, A large element of resentment to put it politely. :-|

Its amazing the amount of upset, that wills can cause, BUT people often , I believe, write them on spur, so to speak.

Without going into too much detail, at moment, someone wrote a will, some years ago, after partner died left majority of money to 2, charities, left hardly anything to children, only one actually, minimal amount.
As the one, who had been left nothing, had already died, it was said that the family wanted to contest, but were seriously advised not to, it would cost.

Years ago, OH and his sister inherited money from an English cousin of his deceased father. She had left her money in parts to each of 18 cousins, and then to their children if the cousin was dead. OH and his sister got about 3 different amounts over a period of about 3 years as more and more of the will was settled!


We drew up a new will in January ............ everything is done as percentages, with instructions that any property we still own is to be sold and the proceeds added to the estate.

If we had wanted to set up a trust fund for anyone with a specific amount, the advice was to set it up now, while we are still alive and have that amount of money.

It is simple progression from OH to me (or vice versa), but then it states that money is left in percentages to daughter, her son in trust, nieces and nephew, and to several charities. The lawyer was very very careful in checking whether we thought our daughter would fight the will as she is not getting it all, although she and her son are getting about 65%. We will both be dead by the time that happens, and the survivor might well have written a new will ....... so c'est la vie.

The original of the will is kept at the lawyer's office, by law, and we have a copy. No valuables are stated as such ............ but there is a statement that daughter is allowed to have all property if she desires, and that nieces and nephew are to be allowed to take any jewellry or art work that daughter does not want. We have some heirlooms from either side of the family, and it only seemed right to allow them to take those rather than sell them off.

We will (we hope!!) produce an attachment that can be added to our file in the lawyer's office as well as kept with our copy here, that identifies art work, jewellry, etc and which came from which side, and which we bought ourselves ............. so that daughter and the others can see it easily


We are seeing a bit of a problem at the moment with the will of our very close friend who died in January ............... she apparently stated in her will that certain pieces of jewellry were to go to her nieces (not sure about the nephews), or they were allowed to choose from her pieces. She has no children, but there are 3 nieces and 2 nephews.

One niece came up in May to go through her jewellry and identify the pieces that she and her siblings wanted. She THOUGHT she would be able to stay in the condo by herself :-D

Instead she had go in only when the Executor could be present .......... apparently one of J's own rings (wedding or engagement) was wanted by the elder sibling, but it wasn't in the condo.

About 3 weeks ago, the niece discovered that J had been wearing her rings in the Palliative Care (I saw them on her), because she never took them off, and was told that J had given them to the friend who had been there for J all through the last 8 or weeks .................. well within J's right to do so.

But there is a lot of anger there now, and also some anger against Aunt J because J re-wrote her will in December while in Palliative Care (but completely compos mentis) to omit one of the nephews who has spent much of his time in jail ....... his parents have also disinherited him. But the niece I met seemed to think J was very wrong to do it.

It was J's right to do what she wanted!!

I just hope that there are not going to be legal battles when it all gets to the probate stage. Thank heavens we're not involved! Our grandson was left something (J was very close to our daughter), but I don't think there is any upset about that!!

I absolutely agree on wills being drawn up in percentages, they are all done like that here, including mine.

There is also a further problem when making specific bequests of property and chattels. If the property has been disposed of at the time of death then that beneficiary receives nothing in its place.

Imagine the following:-

Testator owns house worth £250,000 and cash in bank £250,000. Will leaves house to son No 1, residue to go to son No 2.

House is sold when testator goes into home and turned into cash. At the date of death there is £400,000 left in the bank.

Son No 1 gets zero, son No 2 the entire £400,000

We made our wills many moons ago and updated them when our daughter remarried

They were simple reciprocal wills ie we left our estates to each other and then to our daughter when the surviving person passed

I did the probate for hubbies will when he passed last October

What we did too ,on the advice of the memory clinic ,was Power of Attorney for money for husband as he had his own bank account and we were tenants in common for the house

I had to invoke this in the few months before hubby passed

What we didn't do was a Power of Attorney for his medical care if he wasn't able to make his own decisions This nearly caused a problem when i was trying to get him home from hospital .i was told they could overrule any decision we made and put him into a home if they decided to, told them he doesn't want to go into a home and I had told him as long as I could look after him he would be at home .

Was told they could make the decision

So if I need to do a power of attorney for me I will do both types

We had our wills drawn up on percentage lines many years ago as there was no way of knowing what would be left when we have both gone, particularly if we need to pay care home fees at any point. I now want to change the percentages so we will be redoing our wills shortly.

In addition to a solicitor drawn up will I recommend you set up a
Power of At tourney. Theoretically protects property and monies.

Since my wife became "sole beneficiary" in her Mother's will there has been no
shortage of people taking money from her CASH..Strictly CASH.
How do you trace Cash? I don't know. Seems a cheques are unacceptable to some.

If you have money don't be naïve and gullible.
Reputable people do a job on your property to your satisfaction, then send the bill.
Don't allow your home to become a money pit.

That's right Det, but if percentages were used instead of amounts, that friend would still benefit from the largesse of the deceased.

JoyLouise - stating a percentage does sound the right way to go. The difficulty might come where, say, a small monetary bequest is left to a good friend which could end up as the main proportion of the remaining estate.

Elizabeth A - if this has arisen amongst your own family or friends, you might suggest they contact a solicitor. Most will give a 'free' 15 min or so consultation. Alternatively, ask the legal specialists at the CAB.

I would offer one word of caution as far as making a will is concerned.

In my opinion it may be better to leave percentages rather than state amounts, ie 10% to AB as opposed to £10,000 to AB.

My reason for this is that, years ago, I once came across the will of an elderly person who had needed to pay for care in the latter years of life. When the will had been drawn up well over 20 years or so before death, this person had owned the house and had money in the bank. Having lived to a ripe old age, the house had been sold and a lot of that money and the savings had been used.

Imagine this scenario then - the figures may not be quite right because I have been retired for several years. This person had left £10,000 each to two charities with the bulk of the estate going to the family. Unfortunately, by the end of life, the amount remaining was just over £20,000, which left the family with precious little when compared with the amount the charities were to receive. The family's solicitor appealed to the two charities, explaining what had happened. The directors of one charity quickly realised the original intent of the will and the unfairness of the situation and unanimously decided that the share allotted to them ought to go to the family. The other charity (a large, well-known one) was initially reluctant to 'give up' its share and it took quite some time and discussion with the other beneficiary and family solicitor before acknowledging the spirit of the will and (in my opinion) reluctantly relinquishing its share.

Both of these charities operate under Charity Commission rules so both had it in their remit to act almost immediately, thus avoiding any further unhappiness to the family concerned.

One may say that the original solicitor ought to have advised his/her client when the will was drawn up but a client is free to decide whether or not to heed advice. Ultimately it is the choice of the individual but I know that even today some solicitors prefer to state amounts rather than percentages when drawing up wills.

You can't contest solely on the grounds you disagree, it has to be based the validity of the will and the financial dependency on the deceased.

A claim would normally have to come from the spouse, a former spouse who hasn’t remarried, children, step-children, a partner who lived with the deceased for more than two years or any other dependents.

TV steeplejack Fred Dibnah, whose third wife, Sheila, claimed his will was altered to exclude her while he was was mentally fragile and under the influence of others. She and the estate eventually reached a settlement, so her case, like most, never reached court. However it did require the sale of one of Freds tractors, destined for his sons, to be sold.

The trouble with the Spanish system is that the lawyers have a lock down on everything. As they also control access to title deeds as well as wills the end result can be quite murky. Old Spanish Customs.

In the UK if a will is properly drawn up, witnessed, names and addresses of executors kept up to date AND it is lodged with a reliable law firm then challenging the will is unlikely. The probate insurance will cover any malicious challenges. OTOH a d-i-y will witnessed by Fred next door and the lady from Avon kept in a drawer is asking for trouble. Amazingly this is not uncommon - "she hadn't anything much to leave so why bother with a will" - sure, only a small terraced house no mortgage which even in Leicester was worth a few bob.

If their are donations to charities some of them (no names, no pack drill ) send what they call their preferred terms which they like added to the will. If the bequest is big enough they'll even do the legal work for free. Refuse.

Be careful.

Thanks again, didnt realise you cold get probate insurance,, like the idea of being lodged central, and people can be so greedy.

Here all wills are numbered and printed on special water marked paper. It is then lodged in Madrid so there is not much chance of any but the last one being used.

Anybody accepting to be Executor of an estate should take out probate insurance ( which is charged to the estate ). The rate is between 2 and 3% - use a specialist company not the ones which do your usual insurances and above all not any bank.

For any non-trivial estate one of the executors should be a solicitor who specialises in family law & estates. Generally this would be the same firm that drew up the will.

Avoid d-i-y wills they are harbingers of doom.
The Law Society has a a scheme of free wills for those of limited means.

My MIL made my wife sole beneficiary in her will.
Didn't stop her brother and sister coming from the other side of the world trying to take it off her GRREED
My BIL even contested the will causing a great deal of aggravation at a sad time. :-| :-|

Thanks everyone,
Much appreciated

Liz

If probate has been granted, any appeals have to be made within 6 months, and be on very good grounds to stand any chance of success..

I can't find anything on Google about finding a more recent will, but I suggest you get in touch with your nearest Probate Office and ask them.

Yes but there are circumstances where if an item has been given and sold then the money has to be forfited,but if the artical was intended for the said person/s then nothing changes regareds that but the old Will is revoked as it has no legal binding.as the wording states,

Last Will and Testament along with any Codicils made.