General Chat

Hmmm - interesting Errol, that crime is down but burglary up. Sadly, it seems that a short term fix is essential but addressing the underlying issues is bound to take time. Government itself can't bring down crime figures, it's down to people themselves and therein lies another debate on parenting and discipline. :-)

My dad drove me to look at the Lightnings.

Well, the costs involved is for another debate, but I've long thought that prisoners should be gainfully employed and have to earn their keep and support their families like everyone else - no excuse for not getting to work on time!!

£37000 - the annual average cost of housing a prisoner according to the Prison Reform Society £21,500 Annual Eton school fees !!!!!!!!!! mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Errol, did you fly in? Or arrive in a more mundane manner. It hasn't quite been decided what to do with it yet, talk of a place for asylum seekers or similar, now this latest idea. The village really misses the staff there, business wise.

Sorry - not been following home news for a few days - but I beg to differ. Social change and policy changes go hand in hand and given that a week is a long time in politics, there isn't time for anything other than knee-jerk reactions. But I'm sounding flippant and I don't mean to. It's not a problem that can be fixed overnight, but clearly, something has to be done quickly. Has anyone come up with any other solutions? If the prisons are badly overcrowded though, that doesn't exactly tie in with the country being soft on crime, or does it? Or does it just mean that people are in prison for the wrong reasons or the government has not spent enough money on building even more prisons to house even more people? I do think it's a very complicated issue that cannot be fixed instantly and it's not necessarily an issue of the government's making. Society produces all these people who break the law and need to be locked up so perhaps we should all be looking to ourselves to see how we can become a more law-abiding society instead of expecting the government to fix everything - and that's not a dig at anyone in particular, just a general comment..

Sadly Felicity the only solutions put forward currently are to reduce sentences and to 'buy' more prison space instead of tackling the issue of crime in general. New figures today show that general crime is down but things like burglary are on the increase.

I went there once PP though obviously not in its current proposed use

The ex raf base is not far from where I am living! Coltishall RAF base, that was home to Hurricanes, Jaguars, Javelins etc.

Major problems at Norwich prison in the last couple of days, apparently one wing was closed down as unfit for habitation, some staff were sent to another prison to help out due to shortage on their staffing levels, now those staff are not being allowed to come back to Norwich, have to stay where they went to, so many new prisoners the uninhabitable wing is having to be opened up again, and prisoners are unhappy about being sent there, also now staff shortage at Norwich so prisoners will have to be shut up for longer, i.e. less exercise and activities etc. The conditions they showed in the prison, e.g. showers with paint flaking off the ceilings and similar problems elsewhere looked remarkably like the conditions our servicemen and women were having to live in as shown just a few weeks ago on tv. Just how mujch do prisoners expect, I bet some of them keep their homes in bad repair anyway, yet expect to be housed in immaculate conditions. Maybe they should serve their time helping to put right the buildings they fill, when they do their antisocial or whatever crime they have committed.

But Felicity it has been well publicised over the past couple of days and is no secret that central government is recommending that less strict sentences are meted out - this is against the backdrop that we have run out of prison places! The government is currently negotiating the purchase of two ships and, I believe, an ex army or RAF base to 'house' criminals. This is not about social and political change - it is about lack of space and knee jerk reactions!

I'm sorry Felicity - was typing my response as you typed your's.

What's the difference, really, Errol? All laws do is reflect the social mores of the time and they are often motivated by policital expediency, policy and interpretation. What we see in the media about any particular case is only a part of the picture anyway. The whole point of the legal system as we have it is so that cases can be judged on their merits. Mandatory sentencing opens a very large can of worms and there are always mitigating circumstances that can and should be taken into account. That's why we have a jury of 'our peers' and a judge who hands down a sentence and why everyone is entitled to a defence.

Ah, Carol's post has explained things for me - I hadn't realised that was the issue. Sorry. Even so, I think societies need to address the use to which prison is intended to be put and if overcrowding is an illustration of a more lawless society or not. (OAP's in jail becaise they can't rather than won't pay their Council Tax is something that springs to mind for example.) It is the opposition party's job to oppose though, so they are always going to find something negative to say - they'd be out if business altogether if they didn't take that stance! :-)

I couldn't agree more Carol!

A very valid point indeed Felicity. But this is not about a change in law but a change in policy and recommendation which can be open to some very different interpretations.

With all due respect, things do change. Otherwise we would still hang people for sheep-stealing. The law must have changed at some point and those who were hanged cannot be brought back for re-sentencing. Same issue, different era, different crime.

Derek Williams in Blaenau Ffestiniog - I rest my case!

I knew where you were coming from Errol I saw this on the news earlier. I do agree. If it is wrong one time it's wrong another. I would be very upset if i commited a crime last year only to watch someone else get off with a lighter sentence this year. There is most definately a need for parity in sentencing - you have made a very good point xx

Apologies if I was not clear Lesley. My basic point is about parity. And thank you for your excellent input!