General Chat

That is an excellent point Rosemary. One tiny little word can mean the difference in the meaning of an innocent sentence.

Teresa, I'm sorry it took so long to reply, but I absolutely agree it is wide open to misinterpretation. I think the rationale behind it is good because people have different tolerance levels, but perhaps there's a little too much reliance on common sense. For example, how can an investigation be impartial? If there are no clear boundaries then any investigation is also open to the investigators perceptions. And of course, that then leaves the investigators open to accusations of bias etc etc. I also agree that Rosemary's point is excellent, and very well made too! But again, sadly there will be a faction who would view BOTH comments as racist on the basis that the fact that the neighbour happens to be Indian is immaterial! But then they are the brigade that find offence in 'Baa Baa Black Sheep' and similar phrases

Precisely Tony, which is why I believe there should be clear cut guildelines, or an actuall standard definition of racism. There are far too many grey areas here, and what some percieve as racism, though may be seen a mild, should actually be described as 'not enough to bring about an investigation or to persue a trial'. The problem is getting the agreeement of all parties.

Racism is the theory that different degrees of human ability is determined by race. On the other hand, Racialism, Racialist, is the antagonism between people of different races. The current law is an ass, as is most of the 'social' legislation introduced by this government. Most of it has never been taken to court as it is so flaky that the Crown Prosecution Service daren't risk being made a fool of by the courts.. The city that I live in has a fairly 'diverse' population with people from many backgrounds. Eastenders, Italians, Lithuanians, Pakistanis, Liverpudlians, Afghans, Geordies, Indians, Poles, Brummies..... Is it wrong for me to say 'I called in at the local Pakistani / Indian / etc shop today on the way home?' Is this racist? Should I be prosecuted? Probably because the shop is run by Afghanis. A Polish Chap came up to me today and said 'Youse are a Scouse Git...' I actually fell over laughing as I am both scouse and Polish. Can I say to my Indian friend I gather your grandad was illegitimate and you have no right to claim who you are and you are a bas....rd? Can I say the same to my friend whose parent came from Sheffield and that you are also a bast...rd? I think you get the idea. What has happened on BR is totally unacceptable, it is probably not racialist, but is damned bad manners and downright rude. Sadly it does probably reflect the way that many people in this country think about those whose culture is different to theirs.

I am not going off on a tangent here, as I feel this also comes under the catagory. What about this sinario, one is called a 'snob' because they may not talk to some one who lives on a 'council estate' vise versa 'scum' because 'they live up market'! Doesn't all this work both ways, isn't this a form of racism? My son has been called 'White Trash' but if he retaliates he's racist? The way I see it, what ever is said and too whom it all boils down to bulling type tacts. Make them feel inferior and they will go away! Not the case! Kim

Teresa, absolutely! There is a much more clear steer for institutional racism. This is defined as: 'The collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people.' However, again it comes down to opinion. Your recollection of the documentary is a case in point. If he was followed because he was black - that could be perceived to be racist. However, if he was followed because he was a thief, that is different. To try to use the fact that your skin is black (and I am assuming the arresting officers were white) to 'divertattention' could also be perceived to be a racist act! This is a debate that could go on and on.........

Incidentally, in answer to your initial question; the Oxford English Dictionary definition is: racism • noun 1 the belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race. 2 discrimination against or antagonism towards other races. — DERIVATIVES racist (noun & adjective)

Yes Kim, what you are talking about it prejudice, be it induced by differences in class, lifestyle, bank balance, or even what kind of trainers you wear or mobile phone you use. Prejudice occurs in all areas of society, through all classes and all races. Racism, is another form of prejudice, and because it is a very high profile form of prejudice, it is more widely debated than any other, not least because of differing opinions on what actually constitutes racism. Tony, thanks for that difinition, and yes, it still leave a lot of grey areas. Peter, thank you for that very clear point of view, and I cannot disagree with any of it.

I'll try and pop in later and see how this unfolds - but off now to see how Channel 4 handle Ms Goody......

i can't stand it when someone says 'i'm not racist, my sisters boyfriends mate is black/asian' just because there is a person in your surroundings that you know is black/asian doesn't give anyone the right to use racist comments. My daughters great grandfather came from Africa, she is light skinned but CHOOSES to be known as Black British,A so called friend of mine once said to me when my daughter was about 6yrs old'why do you tell people she is mixed race, she is light enough to be passed off as white' We ended up having a big fight about it as she couldn't get it into her head that if i wanted her to be white she would have a white dad!!..My street has people of colour and cultures and i greet my chinese neighbours on chinese new year,(gung hay fat choy) my muslim neighbours give me a gift on Eid,and my english neighbours at christmas, and vise versa.....its all about learning to live side by side....moe

Hi Doreen racism is wrong. Period. Regardless of who it is aimed at and who is doing the aiming. Of course all groups of people can be racist. I don't think there would be many who would dispute that. Sue xx

Now there raises another point. Is prejudice against Muslims racism or bigotry? After all, Islam is a religion, not a race. Then again, Jews have always been seen as a 'race'.

the best place in the world to go to understand getting along with others is the infant schools. i see children of all colours creeds religions playing together in the playground in my local school, and i think one day you will grow up to hate each other because of what rubs off on you by adults, (i was beaten up at 12yrs old by a gang of black girls in my local park) i don't hate all black people because of it, as an adult i met one of the girls and she is the nicest person ever,(i never told her it was me) and i know it wasn't a colour thing it was a teenage girl thing....moe

Racism comes in many forms. I remember living on our street (here in Australia) and being called Poms by some of the neighbours. My mother, not long over here, told a neighbour in casual conversation how we did a certain thing, can't remember what, differently in England. I remember her being in tears after being told that if she didn't like how Aussies did things then get back home. We copped 'whinging Poms' for awhile after that. I went to school with a lot of Europeans and they were constantly picked on for their appearance and accents. Yet, British and Europeans were the backbone of this country and even the Australians could only go back so many generations as pure Australian. Racism can be blatant or very subtle and sometimes comes from a lack of understanding or a fear of a different culture. We now have some Somalian refugees in our small city and I have to say they add very greatly to the colour and excitement of living in a multicultural area. Although they are starting to wear western clothes, the traditional costumes the older women wear are gorgeous. Their children, like all children, are a delight and as a race they are very good looking. I am so thankful that we are able to provide them with a basic standard of living that was lacking in their country. Susan

My father, the bigot, was listening to my five year old, prattling about her new best friend. What's her name? he said. Jean Mustafa (not her real name), said my daughter. Is she BLACK? said my father, outraged. I don't know, said my daughter, I'll ask her tomorrow. Out of the mouths of babes... OC

Hi Susan, its nice to hear an opinion from down under. I suppose we Brits back home here are just as bad towards the Aussies, constantly reminding them that many are descended from deported criminals. I must say what you said has somewhat surprised me, British people have always been called 'whinging poms' but I thought it was just friendly rivalry, a bit of banter. Is there still widespread racism towards Aborigines out there? I have read from various different sources that it used to be really bad.

OC, my son when 6 yo. asked me to pick him out in a school photo and then asked me to pick out his Sri Lankan friend from the group. Nilal is very dark skinned but I loved that my son didn't see the difference. TW yes there is racism against our Aborigines. However, not the ones who live in tribes out in the country, not the ones who are generally self-sufficient with medical help from the government etc. Unfortunately, some of the urban Aborigines cause some trouble with crime. Some of the racism stems from resentment that they are given money, are not expected to work (although a lot do), receive specialised medical and dental care etc. However, they still remain underprivileged and they do have health problems that 'white' Australians don't generally have. Also the 'deaths in custody' are a worrying trend. So I think the government need to work on our policy for dealing with our native population. They have an incredibly rich culture and we have some amazing artists whose work is becoming well-known throughout the world. Susan