General Chat

Bush and Blair chose Iraq because of the first Gulf War. They thought that, because we fought Saddam then and everyone knew what an oppressive regime it was, the public would fully support them. Given the lack of planning regarding post-war Iraq, it appears they believed the Iraqis would be mightily pleased too. It was never about humanitarian reasons. Firstly, it is illegal to effect regime change because you do not approve of it (despite what America does). There is no way Bush and Blair could publically use regime change as a reason as this would be admitting to breaking international treaties. Secondly, the Kurds were gassed in the 1980s. Statue of limitations ran out on that years ago. If Blair cared so much about the Kurds, then why didn't he act in 1997 when he came into power? It was never about WMDs. Impartial agencies believed Saddam had de-armed. In 2000/2001 (before September) the Bush Administration stated that Iraq had no WMDs. A year later and they suddenly decide you can't move in Iraq without falling over jars of anthrax. It was a lie and they knew it, which is why they had to steal a thesis from the internet. It was about saving face. America got hurt. They looked weak and fallible. So they kicked out at Afghanistan and Iraq knowing full well those countries could not fight back. A more sensibvle approach would be to question why people hate America so much, but that would entail admitting that this is a monster America helped create. The irony is that Bin Laden received millions of tax dollars - the taxes paid by the the very people he helped kill.

We need to listen to our children more.........they see things in a plain and very uncomplicated truth!! Now Iraqi is half baked and Blair is picking up the pooh, he is turning his attention to Iran..............will we follow? I hope not . But hey lets ask our children they'll find the logic!! Much happiness Debi

Great thread Postie Paul, As Grampa said sad but true. Seen as others are having their say I will say this about Blair and Bush backing each other, not at all surprising, but surely people don't think it would be any different if there was a Tory Government in power? As you say Postie Paul all Governments are the same. Pat x

Nothing wrong with being cynical Rob....it'd have been the same whoever was in power though....it must be a great job sitting at a desk deciding how many young men and women to send to thier deaths this month.

How true and so very sad!

There is little doubt in my mind that TB went along with GWB into Iraq because he saw what war did for the likes of Churchill and Thatcher. He also saw the potential of being a 'Wartime Leader' able to handle any 'Crisis Situation' (erm, what went wrong with foot-and-mouth?), and how it would help his standing as President of the US of E. Or perhaps I am being cynical, because I have never liked the lying little twerp. Rob (climbing down off the soapbox)

nudge

Paul An excellent thread. We were only discussing this with our children over dinner last night so I shall print it out for them to read. Daisy

Paul - that was brilliant. Kerry - I beefed on about NORAID the charity raising money for the IRA in America many a time, years ago, when we were being bombed, but nobody seemed to take my point. Of course, Bush has a large Irish electorate to keep sweet! When Clinton was over in N. Ireland pontificating about the IRA I could have been sick. We, in Warrington/Manchester, suffered terrible devastation at the hands of the IRA. Dilys (on her soap box - as if I'm not tall enough!)

What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers? Mechanical Engineers build weapons and Civil Engineers build targets.

another little known fact is that we are still hugely in financial debt from WW2 to the americans. perhaps theres secret threats gone on behind closed doors??

I doubt that very much Rupert, since TB is GWBs' puppet lol

How true, Paul. More people have been killed since the invasion than under Saddam!! Kathy

Paul, thank you for posting this piece it is brilliant and absolutely the truth. Do you think you could get TB to send it to GWB as a kind of Easter message. Rupert.

I thought the best explaination of America's actions was made in the series Not The 9 O'clock News a few years ago.... That they're making ammends for being late for 2 world wars by being extra punctual for the next one..funny, but so tragically true.. I will add though that this is not just a slur on America and The UK....for I believe all governments are murderers and thieves sorry Paul, you left the soapbox vacant lol

And notice how Balir is keeping quiet about going into Iran now the Election is looming. No doubt if he gets re-elected we`ll be follwing Bush into Iran. When is Blair going to stop hiding behind Bush?? Why does no-one remember that USA didn`t help us with IRA, but actually gave them funding??? As soon as USA declare war, they want us to follow, how many brave men and women(Military and Civilian) have to lose their lives to make him see sense?? I say get rid of Blair and his croonies, surely the country can`t get any worse....can it??

couldnt agree more mate. and the thing is it's others that dont even realise they are being affected. local governments are slashing their grants because of no government funding for education because its been spent on the war. sneaky rises are occuring all over the place to pay for this unneccessary action. and what did bush say last week, he will spend his next term fighting other places! bet its not the well defended ones! but i bet it costs us a hell of a lot of money. sorry im on my soap box now! i'll calm down! lol!

Got to confess Paul, I 'borrowed' it, but i thought it was brilliant so put it here. I do believe it was never about weapons though, or human rights otherwise we'd be invading a lot more countries..

well written and articulated paul. i have both friends and students who are out there right now and i have to say not many of them are sure why. have you noticed how quiet our government is about zimbabwe when mugabe is, in my own humble opinion, far more dangerous than saddam. paul. (15 years royal regiment of artillery, 4 friends down and counting.)

Very very good thread. Why did we attack them with no proof of weapons of mass destruction? What did my friends die for? If we didnt go into Iraq, my friends wouldn`t of been out there and the Herc would of never "crashed"