Military Chat

Hi, can anyone help or point me in the right direction?
I have hit a brick wall with one of my relatives Thomas Wayte (1842-1916).
I found an obituary section in the local paper, Dover Express from when his son John was killed in action in 1915.
It mentions that John had three uncles of pensioner age, (?brothers of Thomas) working at the Woolwich Arsenal and Royal Military Academy.
Does anyone know of any information available, such staff lists from about this time, that I might be able to search/view?
Regards, Sara.

Hi Sara, I can't help with your above question but I did find this on a family Search,

Thomas Wayte, "United Kingdom, Chelsea Pensioners' Service Records, 1760-1913"
Name: Thomas Wayte
Event Type: Pension
Event Year Range: 1760-1913
Event Place: United Kingdom
Birthplace: Wiltshire
Birth Year (Estimated): 1843


The record is on FMP, I don't have subs for that but others do.

???????


Name: Thomas Waite
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male
Where born: Corsham, Wiltshire, England
Civil Parish: Laycock
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Chippenham
Sub-registration district: Castle Combe
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 86
Piece: 1836
Folio: 374


John Waite age 14
Maria Waite age 13
Eliza Waite age 11

All born Corsham

Have you traced Thomas Wayte back through the census's to establish who these brothers are?

all Army pensions were paid from the Royal Hospital Chelsea, which is why all Army pensioners were known as Chelsea Pensioners.

The National Archives hold Chelsea Pensioners' Service Records and are available from findmypast

Google For info on Royal Military Academy and the Woolwich Arsenal

Roy

Hello Sara and welcome to the Community Boards.



Note: I will let Sara know that she has replies to her query. :-)

Thankyou both for your comments.
I have traced back through census, and as batmansdaughter has shown here, these are the potential siblings that the newspaper may be talking about.
Sara

Any chance the uncles were his mother's brothers, or was their surname definitely Wayte?

I can only find one Wiltshire born Wayte record, which is Thomas's.

British Army Service Records 1760-1915

First name(s): Thomas
Last name: WAYTE
Calculated year of birth: 1843
Parish of birth: Corsham
Town of birth: Chippenham
County of birth: Wiltshire
Age at attestation: 18 years
Attestation date: 31 December 1861
Attestation corps: Royal Artillery
Attestation soldier number: 2367
Discharge rank:
Discharge corps:
Discharge soldier number:
The National Archives reference: WO97

Did John die in India?

First Name:John
Last Name:Wayte
Date of Death:19 Feb 1915
Date Of burial:20 Feb 1915
Year Of Birth:1894
Age:21
Place:Kamptee
Presidency:Bengal
Archive Reference:N-1-411
Folio:-
Page:297
Catalogue Description:Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Record set:British India Office deaths & burials

Death was by drowning.

Yes, looks like he did:

Headline: DOVER TERRITORIAL DROWNED IN INDIA.

Publication:Dover Express
Publication date:Friday 05 March 1915

:"DROWNED IN INDIA. Notification was received from the War Office on the of February Mrs. Wayte, of 170, Clarendon Street," Dover, of the dtatb. of youngest son, John Wayte, who was drowned February 19th, at India, where lie was serving with the sth Battahon"

The article mentions John had three brothers all serving in the military and that two of his sisters also married soldiers, and that his father had served in India for over 18 years

It does say that John had the three uncles mentioned, but does not state whether they were paternal or maternal uncles....

Thomas Wayte married Mary Briggs in India, should we be looking for Briggs uncles???

Bride's Forename:Mary
Bride's Surname:Briggs
Bride's Age:15
Groom's Forename:Thomas
Groom's Surname:Wayte
Groom's Age:30
Year Of Marriage:1874
Date Of Marriage:7 Apr 1874
Place:Bangalore,Holy Trinity
Presidency:Madras
Bride's Father's Forename:Nathaniel
Bride's Father's Surname:Briggs
Groom's Father's Forename:William
Groom's Father's Surname:Wayte
Archive Reference:N-2-C6
Folio No.:67
Catalogue Description:Madras ecclesiastical records, omissions and corrections, 1777-1884, :

On the register image Thomas is a gunner with D battery 20th brigade R A.
He was a bachelor aged 30, she was a spinster aged 15.

Unfortunately father's occupations weren't included, on the register, so I can't see if Mary's father Nathaniel Briggs was also a military man.

???????????????????

A Nathan Briggs also served in the Royal Artillery (like Thomas Wayte)


British Army Service Records 1760-1915

First name(s): Nathan
Last name: BRIGGS
Calculated year of birth: 1834
Parish of birth: Halifax
Town of birth: Halifax
County of birth: Yorkshire
Age at attestation: 21 years 1 months
Attestation date: 7 April 1855
Attestation corps:
Attestation soldier number:
Discharge rank: Gunner
Discharge corps: Royal Artillery
Discharge soldier number: 367
The National Archives reference: WO97

Did he have sons....?

Nathan Briggs was discharged from the Royal Artillery in 1877, and his intended address was in Halifax, given as his birthplace in his military record.

Is this him in 1881 in Woolwich?

Address: 2, Catherine Sqre, Woolwich
County: London, Kent

BRIGGS, Nathan Head Married M 46 1835 Waterguard Custom House C S Halifax, Yorkshire<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
BRIGGS, Catherine Wife Married F 40 1841 Laundress
Ireland
BRIGGS, William J Son Single M 18 1863 Sandgate, Kent
BRIGGS, David Son Single M 14 1867 Scholar Scotland
BRIGGS, Henry Son Single M 11 1870 Scholar Devonport, Devon
BRIGGS, George Son Single M 9 1872 Scholar India
BRIGGS, Thomas Son Single M 5 1876 Scholar Woolwich, Kent

Is he Mary's father 'Nathaniel', and if so did any of his several sons go on to join the army?

????????????

This could be the son David born in Scotland in 1867.

EDIT yes it is, as parents are given as Nathan and Catherine. Discharged 1904.


First name(s): David
Last name: BRIGGS
Calculated year of birth: 1867
Parish of birth: Leith Fort
Town of birth: Edinburgh
County of birth: Scotland
Age at attestation: 16 years 3 months
Attestation date: 19 May 1883
Attestation corps: Royal Artillery
Attestation soldier number: 37763
Discharge rank:
Discharge corps:
Discharge soldier number:
The National Archives reference: WO97

Joined at Woolwich.

address given as 94 Pattison Rd Plumstead on discharge in 1904.

he died 8th Aug 1944 of carcinoma of the tongue and is described as a Messenger (Royal Arsenal) retired

There is a note on his 1904 discharge that he would be well suited as a messenger or any post of trust .

Another son:

First name(s): Henry
Last name: BRIGGS
Calculated year of birth: ?
Parish of birth:
Town of birth:
County of birth:
Age at attestation: 26 years 9 months
Attestation date:
Attestation corps:
Attestation soldier number:
Discharge rank: Bombardier Collar Maker
Discharge corps: Royal Artillery
Discharge soldier number: 41950
The National Archives reference: WO97

Despite the paucity of information on the above transcription, one of the 15 images associated with the record gives a birthplace of Devonport, which tallies with census 1881, saying he enlisted in 1884 at Woolwich at the age of 14 yrs and 9 months.

He was discharged in 1896 but then re-enlisted with the 15th the Kings Hussars and discharged in '05.

His father was Nathan and his mother Kate, of 2 Catherine Square Woolwich(ties with census 1881)

Just to add to Kucinta's findings;

Name: David Briggs
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 27 Jan 1867
Birth Place: Leith,Midlothian,Scotland
Father: Nathan Briggs
Mother: Catherine Keliher
FHL Film Number: 6035516

Another child,


Name: Catherine Briggs
Gender: Female
Christening Date:
Christening Place:
Birth Date: 02 Feb 1865
Birthplace: LEITH,MIDLOTHIAN,SCOTLAND
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Nathan Briggs
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Catherine Keliher
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11692-1
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 6035516
Reference ID:

Parents marriage,

Name: Nathan Briggs
Date of Registration: 1858
Registration district: Limerick
Volume: 6
Page Number: 612
FHL Film Number: 101247
Records on Page:
Name
Nathan Briggs
Thomas Hadcroft
Mary A Boland
Elizabeth White
Catherine Keleher <<<<<<<<<
Henry Rees

From Family Search,


Name: Nathan Briggs
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Catherine Keleher
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 05 Jul 1858
Event Place: St John, Lim, Ireland
Father's Name: Matthew Briggs
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: John Keleher
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status: Single
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M70218-6
System Origin: Ireland-EASy
GS Film number: 101397
Reference ID: 612

Another child AND it puts Nathan in the same place in the same year where Mary married a Thomas Wayte,


Name: Ann Briggs
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 16 Feb 1874
Christening Place: Bangalore, Madras, India
Birth Date: 12 Feb 1874
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Nathan Briggs
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Katherine
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C00069-9
System Origin: India-ODM
GS Film number: 521862
Reference ID: