Genealogy Chat

You're welcome mgnv. I go to St. Peter's across the road, so pass the Bird regularly. :-D

Cynthia - thanks for the update. The Bird used to be my wife's local.

Sylvia - I only know one salt mine sinkhole story, but it's pretty fantastic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddlrGkeOzsI

mgnv.............................The 'bird' in Hindley is still going strong. :-D

After I graduated, I taught near Northwich, Middlewich etc in Cheshire, an area that was undermined by salt mines that were first worked in Roman times and up to the current day....... there were sink holes every now and again due to the undermining of the towns and villages around. Saxa salt is mined near Middlewich

Wigan is not that far away

That's what made me think that Salt Dealer was far more likely than Reeler.


mgnv ............ have you found the lens??

I wear prescription readers with graduation for computer us, so I'd be going frantic, partly because I'd be having difficulty seeing but also because of the cost!

Thank you so much for the fantastic help you have given me. I never expected such help and information. On behalf of all of my family past and present Thank you xxx :-)

I actually saw them making thread out of a mineral once.
After I graduated, I had a job interview with ICI on the N Yorks coast, just E of Middlesboro.
In spite of this, I think Salt Dealer is much more reasonable.

Re my glasses - they're not prescription, just magnifiers I buy from the Dollar Store (my arms got too short). The thing that surprised me is that I wore them for maybe 2 hrs before I noticed there was a lense missing. Consequently I wandered all over the apt - at the PC, making coffee, etc, etc.

Thank you so much for this xx

mgnv .........

how awful to lose the lens. I hope you can find it!

I'd be lost if that happened to me!!


you posted .......

Here's the FS/FMP census you posted 1/8/2016 21:31
1851 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M71N-PK5
Registration Number RG09
Piece/Folio 2772 / 112 Page Number 28

Thos is again transcribed as a Salt Reeler.
As you know, I don't have access to the image - I wonder if it says Silk Reeler
-----

safc actually posted that census first, on 1 Aug 2016 21:05, and I looked at what ancestry had for the same people, largely because the ages are so very different.


I looked at the image on ancestry, and I am certain that it actually says Salt DEALER ....... and that makes more sense than Reeler!!

Sylvia - I'd been squinting at the board for a couple of hours when I posted earlier. I later found that a lense had fallen out of my glasses - it presumably is on the floor under something. I've got some spare pairs, but it's annoying to waste $3.50 - I hope the lense turns up - and not underfoot.

Anyway, I misread 1861 as 1851 - there are no problems with any census for Bolton 1861-1911.. The only oddity is 2 1871 piece numbers were assigned and not used, viz rg10/3922 & rg10/3923. They would have been assigned to Hulton &/or Westhoughton subdistrict(s).

Sylvia - Here's the FS/FMP census you posted 1/8/2016 21:31
1851 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M71N-PK5
Registration Number RG09
Piece/Folio 2772 / 112 Page Number 28

Thos is again transcribed as a Salt Reeler.
As you know, I don't have access to the image - I wonder if it says Silk Reeler.

------------

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1859
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
HULME Charles RANICAR Jane Bolton, St Peter Bolton 18/20/375

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1859
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
HULME Caroline Eastern Bolton Bolton RENNIKER EB/41/243

oh dear!

No wonder Barbara couldn't find them!

(that 1861 on Find My Past as below!, should be same if using Genes Records)

Chris :)

Huhne Charles 1831 - 1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Little Bolton, Bolton, Lancashire, England

(28, Water Street, Little Bolton, Bolton, Lancashire)

I also looked at the censuses for 1871 and 1881, but have not posted them ........... Charles birth year is always 1831 and birth place Little Bolton, so no further help in finding him before the 1841 Census

He died between 1881 and 1891

Jane is on the 1891, Widow, Charwoman


I have been looking at and for Chimney Sweep Apprentices, but have nothing where he might be found.

Chimney Sweeps did have apprenticeships from at least early in the 18th century, and he would have signed at least a 7 year apprenticeship with William Greenwood, who seems to have been his Master.

That apprenticeship required the Master to provide lodging and food fro his apprenticeships ........ some Masters were dire, some were good, but the boys were stuck with them until the end of apprenticeship.

Charles would have joined William Greenwood some time between the ages of 7 and 10, if I understand what I have been reading. He could have been signed up by his parent, OR been claimed from an orphanage.

I should note that there are references to some Chimney Sweep Apprenticeships being for 14 years.

Charles is with William Greenwood in both 1841 and 1851 ................ he could have been, probably was, the Journeyman Sweep by that point running the business for the Master.

It does not seem to have been a very well paying job, certainly by 1881, as Jane seems to have back to work, and she is shown as a Charwoman in 1891, which implies she has very little money.


Barbara said earlier that Jane ended up the Workhouse, but then left and was living with a daughter when she died ................. it is important to note that the only hospital facility available for poor and many middle class people was at the Workhouse, and the fact that someone is "in" the Workhouse may often mean that they are in the Infirmary section, having gone there to receive treatment or even to have a baby.

All medical treatment had to be paid for ............. even the badly trained or untrained "midwife" from down the street. The Workhouse Infirmary was the only place to receive free treatment.

Barbara and mgnv .............

I posted the 1861 Census for Charles and Jane at 17:56, no problem with it on ancestry

re-posted here ....

1861 Census

Name: Charles Hulme
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Hulme
Gender: Male
Where born: Bolton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Little Bolton
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Little Bolton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4f

Household schedule number: 63
Piece: 2820
Folio: 103
Page Number: 14

Charles Hulme 30 Chimney Sweep
Jane Hulme 23
Caroline Hulme 1

Address:- 28 Water Street

No1851 problems listed for Bolton RD.

The 1851 census piece # range is ho107/1466-ho107/2531
There are 5 pices with missing elements affecting just 4 RDs (NEWMARKET, BRAINTREE, STURMINSTER, SALFORD)
There are 2 pices with damaged elements affecting 3 RDs (SALFORD, MANCHESTER+ASHTON-UNDER-LYNE)
There are 19 pices with decayed elements affecting just 5 RDs (CHORLTON, SALFORD, MANCHESTER, ASHTON-UNDER-LYNE, OLDHAM)
(TNA only use "decayed" for the 1851 water-damaged pieces.)

To see more details, go to
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
and click on advanced search and enter:
Find words
All of these words = 1851
Any of these words = missing damaged decayed
Search for or within references
Any of these references = ho107

FYI The (#) codes mean:
(1) Barracks and military quarters;
(2) HM ships at home;
(3) Workhouses (including pauper schools);
(4) Hospitals (sick, convalescent, incurable);
(5) Lunatic asylums (public and private);
(6) Prisons;
(7) Certified reformatories and industrial schools;
(8) Merchant vessels;
(9) Schools.

Again Thank you for all your help x

Are there any problems with the 1861 census in Bolton that you know of? I cannot find Jane or Charles Hulme. Many thanks xx

Charles and Jane in 1861

1861 Census

Name: Charles Hulme
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jane Hulme
Gender: Male
Where born: Bolton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Little Bolton
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Little Bolton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4f

Household schedule number: 63
Piece: 2820
Folio: 103
Page Number: 14

Charles Hulme 30 Chimney Sweep
Jane Hulme 23
Caroline Hulme 1

Address:- 28 Water Street

same Charles in 1851

1851 Census

Name: Charles Hulme
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: N, Bolton
Civil Parish: Little Bolton
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Little Bolton
ED, institution, or vessel: 09

Household schedule number: 144
Piece: 2209
Folio: 276
Page Number: 39

William Greenwood 73 b.ca 1778, not known where born, Chimney Sweeper
Charlotte Taylor 67 b.ca 1784, N, Halliwell, Lodger, Washerwoman
Charles Hulme 20 Chimney Sweeper
Ralph Derbyshire 10 b.ca 1841, N, Bolton, Chimney Sweeper

Address:- 8 Back Chapel Street


NOTE:- N in the place born should be Lancashire ("-do-" mistranscribed as N)

Barbara ................


you never know what we'll be able to fond for you :-D


Is this the child you think is your Charles Hulme in 1841?

1841 Census

Name: Charles Hulme
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1830
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Bolton Le Moors
Hundred: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Little Bolton

Piece: 536
Book: 7
Page Number: 3

William Greenwood 60 b.ca 1781, not born in Lancashire, Sweep
Margaret Flitcroft 50 b.ca 1791, Lancashire
William Johnson 15 b.ca 1826, Lancashire, Sweep
John Crook 13 b.ca 1828, Lancashire, Sweep
Charles Hulme 11 Sweep

Address:- no street address given

Shell - best to start your own thread. Hindley is in a totally different county to Portsea. 1940 & 1841 are 101 years apart :-D

Added - an Internet search shows you have 2 threads already
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1357248
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1331866?page=2

Return to those and add 'still looking' to bring them up the boards