Genealogy Chat

Gary, did the marriage certificate finally arrive?

greyghost, kathleenbell, rootgatherer, you were all spot on families at Cowper rd and Fountain rd .
thanks for your help,

First name(s) ELIZABETH J
Last name KNOWLES
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1871
Age 58
Death quarter 4
Death year 1929
District Kingston
County Surrey
Volume 2A
Page 538
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain
© Findmypast

For some reason this marriage doesn't show on Freebmd

Also both appear as single on the 1891 census - a bit odd?


Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription
Print transcription
First name(s) Philip
Last name Knowles
Name note -
Marriage year 1890
Marriage date 06 Jul 1890
Marriage place Newington
Spouse's first name(s) Elizabeth Jane
Spouse's last name Eves
Residence Newington, Surrey, England
County Surrey
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain
Index (c) IRI. Used by permission of FamilySearch Intl

First name(s) PHILIP AUGUSTUS
Last name KNOWLES
Birth year 1870
Birth quarter 2
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District Lambeth
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Page 363
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain
© Findmypast



First name(s) PHILLIP A
Last name KNOWLES
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1869
Age 63
Death quarter 1
Death year 1932
District Kingston
County Surrey
Volume 2A
Page 757
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain
© Findmypast

Just had another look Gary while you are waiting for that marriage certificate. The Philip A Knowles that I dismissed in 1891 because he is single may still be a possibility. Elizabeth Eves and her son Arthur are actually lodging with that Knowles family when you look at the actual image.


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Dennetts Grove, St Paul Deptford, Greenwich, London, England

Elizabeth Eaves Lodger Single Female 23 1868 Collar Ironer Peckham, Middlesex, England
Arthur Eaves Son - Male 2 1889 - Peckham, Middlesex, England

When you ordered then, it should have given an estimated date of despatch. Allow 2 or 3 days extra for UK inland 2nd class post.
From what other's have said, its about an extra 3 weeks for overseas posting.

how long do the certificates take to arrive ? i've ordered two and nothing yet . the other one is for the Smith side ( too many Smiths )

Just to add that marriage I posted for a Philip Knowles, he married Rebecca Flora Stoner and they're together on the 1901 census.

Here's her death


First name(s) REBECCA FLORA
Last name KNOWLES
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1866
Age 38
Death quarter 2
Death year 1904
District Camberwell
County London
Volume 1D
Page 434
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain
© Findmypast

Looking forward to hearing what's on the certificate Gary.

i've just applied for marriage certificate , i'll let you know how it goes, thanks for the help.

Perhaps Philip was already married?

Marriages Jun 1886 (>99%)
KNOWLES Philip Camberwell 1d 1097
SLY William James Camberwell 1d 1097
Stoner Rebecca Flora Camberwell 1d 1097
Titler Martha Camberwell 1d. 1907




EDIT

Perhaps not, this seems to be Philip - single in 1891

Dennetts Grove, St Paul Deptford, Greenwich, London, England
Learn more



Alfred F Knowles Head Married Male 45 1846 Paperhanger Dover, Kent, England
Emma E M Knowles Wife Married Female 44 1847 - Strand, Middlesex, England
Philip A Knowles Son Single Male 21 1870 Paperhanger Lambeth, Middlesex, England
Herbert Knowles Son Single Male 19 1872 Paperhanger Lambeth, Middlesex, England
Louisa Knowles Daughter - Female 14 1877 General Servant Lambeth, Middlesex, England
George Knowles Son - Male 6 1885 - Lambeth, Middlesex, England
Daisy Knowles Daughter - Female 2 1889 - Peckham, Middlesex, England
William England Boarder Single Male 18 1873 Brick Maker Sittingbourne, Kent, England

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Shards Road, Camberwell, London, England

Samuel Eves Head - Male 32 1839 - Middlesex, England
Elizabeth J Eves Wife - Female 31 1840 - Middlesex, England
Frederick C Eves Son - Male 8 1863 - Surrey, England
Samuel J Eves Son - Male 7 1864 - Surrey, England
Elizabeth J Eves Daughter - Female 3 1868 - Surrey, England
Harriet T Eves Daughter - Female 0 1871 - Surrey, England

As has already been said, you need the marriage certificate but following on from the above post, I think this is Georgw William's birth.

Births Dec 1898 (>99%)
Knowles William George Camberwell 1d 917

He's listed as Willie on the 1911 census. The parents haven't filled in the number of years married but have stated 13 children born, 7 living.

From the GRO index the mother's maiden surname is Eaves but I can't see a marriage for them so perhaps one of his parents wasn't free to marry.



1911 Census Transcription
25a Cowper Road, Wimbledon, Surrey, England

Philip Knowles Head Married Male Paperhanger 42 1869 Worworth
Elizabeth Knowles Wife Married Female Color Ironer 42 1869 Peckham
Lily Knowles Daughter Single Female General Ironer 20 1891 Nunhead
Rose Knowles Daughter Single Female General Servant 16 1895 Nunhead
Violet Knowles Daughter Single Female General Servant 15 1896 Nunhead
May Knowles Daughter Single Female - 14 1897 Nunhead
Willie Knowles Son Single Male School 12 1899 Nunhead
Ruby Knowles Daughter Single Female School 10 1901 Nunhead

(and another!)

Chris :)

1901 (Find My Past)
Elizabeth J Knowles Head Married Female 30 1871 Ironer Peckham, Surrey, England
Arthur Knowles Son - Male 12 1889 - Nunhead, Surrey, England
Lilly L Knowles Daughter - Female 10 1891 - Nunhead, Surrey, England
Rose D Knowles Daughter - Female 7 1894 - Nunhead, Surrey, England
Violet Knowles Daughter - Female 6 1895 - Nunhead, Surrey, England
Daisy M Knowles Daughter - Female 4 1897 - Nunhead, Surrey, England
George W Knowles Son - Male 2 1899 - Nunhead, Surrey, England
Ruby E Knowles Daughter - Female 0 1901 - Merton, Surrey, England
Florence A Knowles Daughter - Female 0 1901 - Merton, Surrey, England
Street Cowper Road
Parish Wimbledon
County Surrey
Municipal ward South Park
Registration district Kingston
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 661
Folio 80
Page 45


KNOWLES, WILLIAM GEORGE (EAVES)
GRO Reference: 1898 D Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 917

KNOWLES, LILY LOUISE (EAVES)
GRO Reference: 1891 M Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 901

EAVES, ARTHUR -
GRO Reference: 1888 D Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 813

KNOWLES, FLORENCE ALICE (EAVES)
GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in KINGSTON ON THAMES Volume 02A Page 351


Deaths Mar 1971 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
KNOWLES George William 4No1898 Merton 5d 1122


https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

(above 1971, if Mitcham one)


All Surrey, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1962 (Ancestry)

(if anything on above)

I think you'll just have to buy the cert, Gary!

IF -
if the George William (1898) in the 1939 record posted by Greyghost is the right one, then he wasn't born in Surrey, and therefore we have no idea which of several born in other places in 1898 he might be.

However if the date of 1898 is wrong, and he was born in Surrey, then he might be this one, born 1895:

George William Knowles
in the 1911 England Census
Name: George William Knowles
Age in 1911: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1896
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Croydon, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Croydon
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street address: 129 Pemdevon Rd, Croydon
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Courier Boy
Registration district: Croydon
Registration District Number: 39
Sub-registration district: West Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 67
Piece: 3330
Household Members:
Name Age
Louisa Knowles 50
Frederick Alfred Knowles 18
George William Knowles 15
Edith Agnes Knowles 12
Hilda Rose Knowles 8
Henry James Hatcher 19 - nephew
Frederick Simpson 20 - boarder

Births Sep 1895 (>99%)
Knowles George William Croydon 2a 250


It's too uncertain - you need the cert.

Just to add for Peterborough reference...

Chris :)

Births Jun 1918 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Knowles George W Jackson Peterbro 3b 310


County Northamptonshire
Place Peterborough
Church name St Mark
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 446
Baptism date 15 Jun 1918
Person forename George Walter
Person abode 27 Gladstone Street
Father forename George Walter
Father surname KNOWLES
Father occupation Engineers Turner
Mother forename Elizabeth

https://www.freereg.org.uk/

i have all the info on the Fisher's , and when first married they were at the Nags head yard , its the knowles im having trouble with before that, that is why i need their marriage certificate.

The couple in Northamptonshire have a daughter called Molly E. Knowles and a son, George W. Knowles. I have checked their births but the mother's maiden name is Jackson, so not the family Gary is looking for.

I think the one found earlier is more likely to be the family.

To be absolutely certain the 1919 marriage certificate is needed.

Kath. x

Gary's couple didn't necessarily live in Surrey after marriage.

Can someone with a FMP sub have a look at this household, please, and then if children are named, find out the mms?

1939 Register Transcription (Preview)
Knowles Household Peterborough M.B., Northamptonshire, England

George W Knowles 1885
Elizabeth Knowles [1886] and 2 more people are on this record