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On the 1901 census Westminster House, Mardyke Street, Southwark, John Warbers appears aged 4 months living with my Great grandparents, George and Carrie Butler. His details are born Strand and relationship grandson. I cannot find a birth or death record and have not managed to locate him on the 1911 census. My grandmother was Alice b 1880 St Pancras. They had 4 other children but only the eldest three could be the parent. The other query I have is Norah Butler also b 1900 Westminster. I cannot locate a birth record (she was called Kathleen Mary Norah Butler) I found her on the 1911 census living in Southampton with her aunt (mother's sister) age given as 11 but stating she was born in Southwark, I have a death certificate she died on 8 Jul 1971, on which her birth was given as 15 Jan 1902 but I think her husband was mistaken and thought she was younger. Can anybody help by suggesting how I can get more info on John Warbers and a dob for Norah? I would be most grateful.

For ref.

Name: Nora Butler
Age: 1
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: George Butler
Mother's name: Carrie Butler
Gender: Female
Where born: Westminster, London, England

Civil Parish: Southwark St George The Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene Southwark
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Kent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 173
Household Members: Name Age
George Butler 49
Carrie Butler 40
Alice Butler 21
George Butler 19
John Butler 15
Albert Butler 9
Nora Butler 1
John Warbers 4 Months

Any clues how I will track Norah's birth certificate down please

Can't see either her or John's birth on Freebmd. I tried looking for possibles for Nora(h) using Hanora (sometimes shortened to Nora or Norah) and the various combinations of Kathleen (Catherine), Mary and Nora but with no success, sorry.

thanks, any luck with John Warbers on later census?

Don't see any Warbers on the 1911 census and only one Warber!!

thanks, any luck with John Warbers on later census?

I don't suppose this is him but then again who knows!

Births Dec 1900 (>99%)
Butler John Richard Strand 1b 585

Liking that one brummiejan - I don't see a corresponding JRB on the 1901.

When and to whom did Alice marry. Had she any sisters that may have been John's mum? He may be on the 1911 census listed by a stepfather's surname?

1911 - sorry don't have a sub. to view the household. Your Carrie??

HOUSEHOLD BUTLER CARRIE F 1861 50 Chelsea London

I looked at John Richard Butler born Bear Yard Workhouse to Alice Butler, are you thinking that he might be the illegitmate son of Alice? the thought did occur to me. Does anyone know if I can access the workhouse records to ascertain where Alice was admitted from?

Yes, I was trying to tactfully suggest that as a possibility. Who did Alice marry please? Was she married before 1911?

Hi rootgatherer, Alice had 9 children, one died, with Luke Keefe b 1879 Southwark. Luke was married to a Laura Ann Heard 1898 and they had two children. On the 1901 census he is shown living with a Norah (Laura?) and daughter Nora b 1897 (mo record of her birth either). They must have separated because by 1911 he was living with my grandmother Alice and 4 children. Laura Keefe was living at a different address with her second daughter (Emily FlorenceKeefe b 1903)
My grandparents did not marry until 1933 (presumably because Luke was still married to Laura The mystery deepens.

Not sure about England but in Scotland Workhouses or Porhouses were also used as hospitals for those who could not afford to pay for medical assistance. You could see if the Poor Relief records for that area have survived as these often contain a fair amount of detail. One of my great uncles married a lady who had a child from a previous relationship (about the same time as your John was born). The poor relief gave me details of her parents in Ireland and also the name, address and occupation of the reputed father of the child.

H rootgather, my Carrie died in 1904 I believe.

Hi rootgather, will see if I can find Poor relief records for Southwark where Alice Butler lived in case they sent her to Bear Yard. I remember my mother telling me that Alice lived in Covent Garden where Bear Yard is located so this might be the record. I will send for John Richard Butler's bc to establish Mother/address.

Looking at 1901 someone has corrected carrie to carla.
jan

That was me, her name was Clara but she was known as Carrie or Clarrie

The record is available on Ancestry Image 18 of 321 of records for
London England Poor Law Records

Admission and Discharge Register: Includes Entries for Bear Yard, Edmonton, Cleveland Street, St Gi…

Alice Butler
Admitted 15th Oct 1900 discharged 5th Nov 1900 to O R
I don't know what O R means.