General Chat

Probably opening up a can of worms here, but I think that following on from the whole Big Brother debacle, it is very much open to debate at the moment. I have just heard Derek Laud on TV, stating that his own definition of racisim is when people only see colour. Do you agree with this or do you have your own definition of racism....and does it apply to all races? Keep it friendly guys :-))

Academic definition also includes not seeing the colour. This is a left wing view that if 'we' ignore colour 'we' are not compensating for institutional racism over the years. Just thought I'd throw that one in. How I every managed to get a degree I don't know. lol

I've never really had my own definition about racism but I suppose I'd say that racism is discriminating against someone purely because of their race/colour.

I always thought it was to do with race not colour.

I don't think it's just colour, I think some people are scared of anyone who is different than them. Not just being African, Asia or White but being German, Italian or any other nationality. Racism seems to be across the board colour and language. If I don't like someone it's because I don't like them as a person not because of there colour or nationality, some people just don't seem to want to look deeper into another person. Fiona. x

My opinion is that racism is a belief in an innate superiority of a particular race- antagonism towards members of different race based on their belief. catherine xx

So what is the definition of Race. For example what race is a third generation Pakistani. The ones I know class themselves as English. But the colour of their skin means people judging on appearance see them as Asian. What's you view ?? (TW I will move this to a new thread if you want, just think it's relevant here) T.O.R. x

race and colour.

But Where does one draw a line? the way I see it, any jibe against another person involving colour or race can be called racism? for example '' he is a Pakistani'' is a statement of fact, however ''HE'S A PAKI !!!'' same Statement but with a different tone............Racism? Bob

TOR in the USA black people usually get called African American (they do on tv anyway so I assume they are in real life) so maybe Asian English??? Personally I think they have every right to call themselves English as much as any white person born here.

TOR, no keep it here, it is a very broad issue. Hoff, what do you mean race and colour?

Being derogatory towards someone using their race as a weapon to do so. Attacking that person on the sole basis that the person is of another race Elaine x

Added by Tantalisingly Omniscient Redhead on 19/01/2007 17:23:33 So what is the definition of Race. For example what race is a third generation Pakistani. The ones I know class themselves as English. But the colour of their skin means people judging on appearance see them as Asian. What's you view ?? (TW I will move this to a new thread if you want, just think it's relevant here) T.O.R. if they where born in England they are english

My late father was the biggest racial bigot in the world. He hated (feared) anyone who was in any way different from him. I got used to it, and after years of confronting him about it, realised he would never change and I ignored it. But even I was taken aback when he had a rant about his new neighbour - the problem being that the poor man was from 'b****y Derbyshire'. I had a taste of racial discrimination myself, as a young teenager. We moved to Scotland and two teachers picked on me, calling me a 'sassenach' - this was done in a nasty, sneering way, and could not in any way be considered teasing. All my faults were down to me being English. Of course, back then, there was no redress. I was very upset by it all. I think it is down to the intention of the speaker, not the words used. I worked in a market for a while, where there was an Indian stallholder. The bloke who faced him regularly shouted 'oi! paki! come 'ere!' to which the Indian chap replied 'Yes, whitey, what do you want?' These two men were the best of friends. No offence was intended and none was taken. OC

But surely TOR (and Hoff) by English we are talking of nationality. Is that different to race or the same thing? Can a person not class himself as English nationality, and Asian (or whatever) race? Years ago I worked in a restaurant/cafe. A lady came in and asked for a coffee without milk. I repeated the order back to her, but instead stating 'black coffee' The lady looked horrified! She asked if I was allowed to say that, as she had been in another cafe a while back and was told she could not say black coffee as it was racist. My turn to look horrified, I repeated the order again and stated 'ethnic coffee then' but, it does raise a serious issue which we have all come across. Is the normal use of our english language really an issue of racism? Or is this PC gone mad. This was nearly 15 years ago by the way, so nothing new.

my dads dutch i was born in england , so what does that make me. English

What an interesting, and thought provoking thread! The McPherson report that was published following the Stephen Lawrence enquiry sought to simply the definition of 'racist incident' and that this new definition should be universally adopted by the police, local government and other relevant agencies. The definition is: 'A racist incident is any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person.' This means that if anyone – the victim, a witness, a police officer or a council official – perceives an incident as racist then it should be recorded and investigated as such. This boils down to each one of us will view racism differently, dependent upon our own perceptions. The Big Brother 'incidents' must therefore be investigated as a racist incident in view of the 'perceptions' of however many thousand 'witnesses', and I know that Hertfordshire Police are conducting an investigation and I believe there is a statement on their website. There is a difference though between racism and political correctness. For example, my mother will never be politically correct as she 'doesn't understand what the fuss is about', but having said that she hasn't got a racist bone in her body!

Doesn't that leave it just as open to misinterpretation as it was before Tony? It is all too easy for someone to cry racist when an otherwise ordinary insult or action is done against them, even if it wasn't actually racist. For instance, I watched a documentary several years ago, where secret cameras were watching people on the tube in London, and recorded a man stealing from handbags, pockets, anything he could get into. He was caught on film, arrested by police, and charged, and his reply? 'You only did it cos I'm black'. In other words, he percieved it to be racist rather than a simple case of being caught thieving! Does that warrant an investigation?

'Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me' we used to say as kids. Not quite true, but when we start to legislate about words and 'intent' we are on thin ice. What worries me is that it it seems to be only aimed at whites. I believe someone was called 'white trash' on big brother and nothing comes of it. ( don't know for sure don't watch it ) Who says 'paki' is offensive ? Years ago it was used by many as just an abbreviation. What if Americans, Australians and English say that they are offended by Yank, Aussie and Limey etc? Are we going to lock up everyone ? Bob

The difference between the following statements? ' my new neighbour is Indian AND he is very nice'. 'my new neighbour is Indian BUT he is very nice'. The 2nd was a comment from an aquaintance who is a very kind person but perhaps intimidated by those of a different colour or indeed culture. On an individual basis she would help anyone, of any colour etc.