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Hi Chris. the thread you have mentioned is one mine from two years ago . the wedding I am looking for now is the parents of Margaret from the earlier post .

Hi Marie celeste . I was mistaken It is the Brides father whose name is different . I have posted a census from 1851 there is an Elizabeth Thomas ,Mother Margaret and father Francis . The mother is from Pembrokeshire
If you look back at my first post here the person at Bridgend local history told me there was a marriage between John Thomas and Elizabeth Thomas in in 1852 in Swansea . . now I am not certain if the banns I found are for the swansea wedding or the wenvoe one

Banns for Wenvoe marriage:

First name(s) JOHN
Last name THOMAS
Banns year 1852
Banns day 15
Banns month Aug
Marriage year 1852
Marriage day -
Marriage month -
Marriage place WENVOE
Spouse's first name(s) ELIZABETH
Spouse's last name THOMAS
Groom's parish Wenvoe<<<<<<<<<<<<
Bride's parish Wenvoe<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
County Glamorganshire
Country Wales
Record set Glamorgan Banns

banns read for John Thomas bachelor of this parish and Elizabeth Thomas Spinster.

read Aug 15th, Aug 22nd, Aug 29th.

I did enquire with Bridgend about the weddings on the other thread but they said there wasn't a match . I could check again . but he was definite about a wedding in Swansea

well, I found the marriage in Swansea, but MC proved that Elizabeth Thomas married Thomas Randall not that John Thomas

so that is proved wrong.


How sure are you that you have the correct family in the 1851 Census???????

Thhis is an Elizabeth Thomas of about the right age, living in Wenvoe on the 1841 Census .............. BUT she is a Female Servant working for a farmer, so no sign of her father.

You do have to remember that most people would have been out at work well before the age of 15. In fact the 2 Morgan boys are down as Servants

1841 Census

Name: Elizebeth Thomas
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Gender: Female
Where born: Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Wenvoe
Hundred: Dinas Powis
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: St Nicholas

Piece: 1417
Book: 27
Folio: 12
Page Number: 18

Mathew Hampton 15
Mary Thomas 15
Elisabeth Morgan 15
William Morgan 11
John Morgan 5
Elizebeth Thomas 12 <<<<<<<<<<<<


They all seem to be working for a farmer named John Williams, but are living in a separate part of the farm.


also on the 1841 Census

Name: Gronow Thomas
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: St Andrew
Hundred: Dinas Powis
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: St Nicholas

Piece: 1417
Book: 1
Folio: 6
Page Number: 9

Gronow Thomas 35 Ag Lab
Mary Thomas 30
Mary Thomas 4
Daniel Thomas 1

HI Marie Celeste . I cannot find the census you mentioned with John married to Rachel . Does it give his birthplace as Devon?

This is that 1851 census (this one's from FindMyPast but it's also on Ancestry)

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Cowbridge Road, Coyty, Bridgend, Glamorganshire, Wales

Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

John Thomas Head Married Male 35 1816 Hawker Devon, England
Rachal Thomas Wife Married Female 38 1813 - Somerset, England
Mary Thomas Daughter - Female 9 1842 - Glamorgan, Wales
John William Lodger Unmarried Male 50 1801 - Gloucestershire, England

To reiterate the questions previously asked:

How do you know Elizabeth's maiden name of Thomas - is it from one of the children's birth certificates?

How do you know the year of marriage as 1852?

It helps us to help you if we know what background information you have.

Editing as I go along ....O. K The definite information I have is the wedding certificate of George and Margaret
First October 1883 George Thomas 28 batchelor general labourer Oldcastle Bridgend Father George Thomas (Deceased )
Margaret Thomas 24 Spinster Oldcastle Bridgend Father John Thomas (deceased )
Margarets family in1881 census is the one you have posted here . she is with her parents
and two children John and William Huxtable Children before her marriage to George . John is my great grandfather . his birth certificate is Alfred John Huxtable but three months later he was baptised as John Thomas . the name he always used . he was brought up by his grandparents . William was brought up by Margaret and George . There is no fathers name on his birth certificate . and apart from the 1881 census he is listed as William Thomas

You really need Margaret's birth certificate which will confirm her parents names

Jude

The wedding I have been trying to trace is Margaret's parents John and Elizabeth .On the 1881 census John's age is 80 and Elizabeth is 50 On the 1891 census Elizabeth (named as Betsy ) is a widow . I am not sure if I do have the right census for 1851 as the age gap is different but Margaret's age fits .
I found the wedding record of John Thomas and Margaret Thomas on find my past and the person from Bridgend Family history , said there was a wedding of those two in Swansea in 1852 but Sylvia has proved him wrong unless there is another one.

Yes but as MC asked "how do you know Elizabeth's maiden name was Thomas"?

The only way you can be sure is to buy one of their children's birth certificates. Until then, and as it is such as common name, you cannot be sure.

Jude

O K I'll try that . Been trying to trace John Thomas birth or death records but I don't know his correct age . The 1881 census gives it as 80 which would mean he was born around 1880 -1881 but the census Marie celeste has found says he was born in 1816 and the other census all give different dates of birth

Unfortunately, censuses are like that.

And if we do find the marriage, there's every chance he will be described as "full age" which won't hep either.

Jude

just looked find my past has 12 Margaret Thomas's born in Bridgend in1860 even if I get them how do I know which is the right one.

I wouldn't be looking for an 1860 birth for Margaret (of which there are 7 on FreeBMD).

Margaret was 12 on the 1871 census (taken 2 April) and 22 on the 1881 census (taken 3 April). She could therefore have been born anytime from mid April 1858 to the first few days of April 1859.

These are the only matching entries on FreeBMD, narrows it down a bit.

Births Mar 1859
THOMAS Margaret Bridgend 11a 419

Births Jun 1859
THOMAS Margaret Bridgend 11a 440
THOMAS Margaret Bridgend 11a 442
THOMAS Margaret Bridgend 11a 443

Do you have John and Elizabeth on the 1861 census? I haven't had any luck finding them.

EDIT: NO THE FOLLOWING ISN'T HIM

I suspect that this might be John in 1861:

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Butcher Shop, High Street, Aberavon, Neath, Glamorganshire, Wales

Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

James Key Head Married Male 26 1835 Butcher And Grocer Baglan, Glamorgan, Wales
Mary E Key Wife Married Female 27 1834 - Hayle, Cornwall, England
Sarah M Key Daughter - Female 2 1859 - Aberavon, Glamorgan, Wales
William J Key Son - Male 0 1861 - Aberavon, Glamorgan, Wales
Lousia Jenkins Sister In Law Unmarried Female 14 1847 Grocer Assistant Aberavon, Glamorgan, Wales
** John Thomas Workman Married Male 54 1807 Labourer Tiverton, Devon, England
Margaret Rees Servant Unmarried Female 19 1842 Nursemaid Aberavon, Glamorgan, Wales
Elizabeth Jenkins Servant Unmarried Female 23 1838 House Servant Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

Now, the transcription says "Married" but I'm pretty certain it looks like "Widr" (Widower) on the image.

Anyone else's opinions welcome.

FWD ............... I am confused .....................

you posted ...........

The definite information I have is the wedding certificate of George and Margaret
First October 1883 George Thomas 28 batchelor general labourer Oldcastle Bridgend Father George Thomas (Deceased )
Margaret Thomas 24 Spinster Oldcastle Bridgend Father John Thomas (deceased )
Margarets family in1881 census is the one you have posted here . she is with her parents
and two children John and William Huxtable Children before her marriage to George . John is my great grandfather . his birth certificate is Alfred John Huxtable but three months later he was baptised as John Thomas .

------------

IF Margaret's children born before her marriage had the surname HUXTABLE, then why are you looking for a margaret with the surname Thomas?????????????

Surely she would have married under the surname Huxtable????????

She is looking for Margaret's parents marriage Sylvia ....John Thomas to Elizabeth ...Thomas or not!

Jude

But, but, Jude ............


this is the marriage certificate that is giving the evidence of John Thomas ............


First October 1883 George Thomas 28 batchelor general labourer Oldcastle Bridgend Father George Thomas (Deceased )
Margaret Thomas 24 Spinster Oldcastle Bridgend Father John Thomas (deceased )


Both surnames are Thomas .................. but Margaret had children before her marriage in the name of Huxtable??????????



what am I not seeing or understanding?????