General Chat

I've found the details on the SEAX site.
Father was William Bull (deceased) a bricklayer. Johns age was 33.
Full details in a minute.

When my gt grandfather married he knocked 6 years off his age, only the census and finding his birth cert proved his age was not what he said, and often people weren't sure themselves.

Marriage after banns at St John's Stratford Aug 15 1897.

John William Bull age 33, bachelor, labourer, of 52 Romford Road, father William Bull (deceased) bricklayer.
Louisa Mary Lees, age 25, spinster, of 52 Romford Road, father Henry William Lees, labourer.
Witnesses J G James, T A Reeve.

Edited: May to Mary

Thank you ever so much will go and take a look

The marriage details for the Samuel who married Louisa Budge is as follows:

At Holy Trinity church, Barking Road Canning Town on 25 December 1880 after banns:
Samuel Bull, 21, bachelor, carman, father George Bull, carman.
Harriet Elizabeth Budge, 19, spinster, father William Bodley Budge, joiner.
Witnesses: William B Budge, Jessie M Bull.
The address for both the Bride and Groom is 36 Trinity st.

1871 Watlington Oxfordshire
William Bull born 1841 Oxfordshire Bricklayer/Journeyman
Emma 33 Brantford.
John W 1865 Sandhurst Berkshire
Stephen 1868 Sandhurst
George 1870 Oxfordshire.

1881 West Ham
Emma widow 48 Brentford
William 15 (JOHN W) on 1871 Sandhurst
Stephen 13
George 10
Emily 7 Oxford
Arthur 5 Oxford.

1891 Plaistow East Ham
Emma Buth (Bull)
Stephen 1866 Sandhurst married born 1866
Martha (wife of Stephen)
George
Arthur


Maryb.

Am getting very confused now I have a famly member who done a lot of research and purchased certificates and have been in contact with her as I know another relative did as well so hopefully we can get some right info thank you for all your help

What evidence do you have that your John William Bull had a brother named Samuel?

Is there something that definitely links the two men as siblings, or has someone just guessed they were related?

Even the best of researchers can make mistakes and end up following the wrong tree, and then other researchers can end up copying their work assuming it to be correct, instead of verifying or disproving it by doing their own research.

If Samuel turns out NOT to be the brother of John William, then there is no point in pursuing his parents George Bull, carman, and Elizabeth Wheeler, especially as the marriage details Kense posted show John William's father to be " father William Bull (deceased) bricklayer."

Census 1881 shows Geo(rge) and Elizabeth living in Trinity St, so they seem pretty definite as the parents of Samuel. Elizabeth's birthplace is consistently berkshire over several censuses. Again, no sign of a John William in the family; though, as someone else suggested, he might have been the William born 17th Nov 1858, who was part of the batch baptism in 1862.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census

36, Trinity Street, West Ham, Essex, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Geo Bull Head Married Male 58 1823 Labourer Stepney, Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Bull Wife Married Female 58 1823 - Binfield, Berkshire, England
Jessie Maria Bull Daughter Single Female 15 1866 Machinist (Shirt) London, Middlesex, England
Edward Wilks Boarder Single Male 29 1852 Labourer London, Middlesex, England

My nan was a Bull from mile end Stepney and her dad was George 1863. Will look up my tree tomorrow

Any luck finding John William Bull 1891 or 1901 with his kids?

Maryb.

I have had it confirmed today from a family member who has done a family tree and got some certificates John and Samuel were brothers and Samuel married Harriet Budge x

So then how can John W Bull who married Louisa M lees have dad William a bricklayer when Samuel's dad was George??

Very strange.

Maryb.

My thoughts exactly...

Unless John William is the William c1858 (brother to Samuel) , but I haven't had the energy to look into that and see if William c1858 can be traced through the censuses.

lol it got so frustrating for me as well that's why I asked on here at least now I know they were brothers and from what I can gather after his wife Louisa died he remarried but no name or date and he seems to have disappeared after 1900

There is a William Bull born 1858 St Georges
1881 Diggon Street Mile end
William Bull carpet warehouseman
Mary 1861 Wapping
William Bull under 1
Thomas Clark brother in law Wapping 1858

So Mary Clark married a William Bull her parents were William and Mary,I can't find the married for Bull/Clark

1911 they are still together married 31 years 7 children all alive.

Could this be the same William? son of George and Elizabeth.

Maryb.

But HOW do you know they are brothers, Leigh?

We can find no evidence whatsoever that they were???

What evidence/certs have your relatives go that confirms John William and Samuel are actually brothers, as their marriages indicate different fathers' names and occupations?

I am waiting to find out from my relative its a bit hard though I live in UK my relative lives in Australia so hopefully soon

Would you update us if you do get the evidence, Leigh, especially as the William born 1858 as John William option has gone out the window if Maryb has found William in 1881, with a different wife who lasts through to at least 1911...

It's just that as far as I can see, maybe I'm wrong, John William does not appear in any census with George Bull and wife Elizabeth Wheeler and their son Samuel or other offspring, he does not appear to have a baptism record as their son, and I'm not sure whether anyone has a confirmed sighting of him in any census, that gives a birth year and location for him.

Does the relative have his birth cert? I can't see what else would actually confirm the sibling connection, unless the birth cert shows John William's parents to be George Bull, carman and Elizabeth Wheeler, not the William Wheeler bricklayer cited on John William's marriage record as his father.

I think this is the John William Bull born 1864 Sandhurst Berkshire who had dad Willam a bricklayer and brother Stephen.

1911 12,Fulton Street Canning Town Victoria docks.
William Bull 1864 reading Berkshire Bricklayers labourer
Ellen 48 says married 20 years?? 3 kids 2 died??
William 1895 West Ham labourer sugar works (could this be William henry Bull 1895.

1911 21,Wightman Street Victoria Docks
Stephen Bull 1861 Reading Berkshire
Martha wife. 8 children born

My money is still on this being the right family.

Maryb.