General Chat

That certainly looks a much better fit to the details on the marriage cert to Louisa Mary Lees - I think you may well be on to something there, Maryb.

This is the Sandhurst born John W in census 1871 (apologies if It's been posted before, I'm losing track as the thread is getting so long.)

Birth ???

Births Dec 1865 Bull John William Easthampstead 2c 362

Census:

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Couching Street, Watlington, Henley, Oxfordshire, England

William Bull Head - Male 29 1842 - Oxfordshire, England
Emma Bull Wife - Female 33 1838 - Middlesex, England
>>>>>John W Bull Son - Male 5 1866 - Berkshire, England
Stephen Bull Son - Male 3 1868 - Berkshire, England
George Bull Son - Male 0 1871 - Oxfordshire, England

Census image says father William is a BRICKLAYER JOURNEYMAN, born Pyrton. Emma born Brentford Middx, formerly dressmaker, John W and Stephen born Sandhurst, George born Oxon Watlington.

Emma is widowed, and the family have moved to WEST HAM by 1881:


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Serles Buildings, 3, Denmark Street, West Ham, Essex, England

Emma Bull Head Widow Female 48 1833 - Brentford, Middlesex, England
William Bull Son Single Male 15 1866 Laborer Sandhurst, Berkshire, England <<<<<<<<<<<<
Stephen Bull Son Single Male 13 1868 Scholar Sandhurst, Berkshire, England
George Bull Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Watlington, Oxfordshire, England
Emily Bull Daughter Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Watlington, Oxfordshire, England
Arthur Bull Son Single Male 5 1876 Scholar Watlington, Oxfordshire, England

EDIT: have nowrealised Maryb had already posted this plus the 1891. but will leave it here anyway.

????

Marriages Mar 1864
Bull William Henley 3a 625 <<<<<<<<<
Chuter Emma Henley 3a 625 <<<<<<<
Daniels Henry Henley 3a 625
Wheeler Sarah Elizabeth Henley 3a 625

Bit tenuous.

As a by the by, is this William Henry Bull as a seaman in the Royal Navy?

First name(s) William Henry
Last name Bull
Service number K20057
Birth year 1895
Birth date 28 Jan 1895<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth place West Ham<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth county Essex
Birth country England
Archive reference ADM 188/907/20057
Record set Royal Navy Seamen 1899-1919
Category Military, armed forces & conflict

His occupation on enlistment was factory labourer.

***This tallies with the 1911 census Maryb posted, with John W. born Reading, and a son William born 1895. West ham, who happens to be a labourer in a sugar works.***


1911 12,Fulton Street Canning Town Victoria docks.
William Bull 1864 reading Berkshire Bricklayers labourer<<<<<<
Ellen 48 says married 20 years?? 3 kids 2 died??
William 1895 West Ham labourer sugar works (could this be William Henry Bull 1895)<<<;

I seem to recall on your ancestry tree there is a picture of WHB as a young man in an open locket, I thought he might have been in naval sailor suit type top.

According to the record image he signed up for 12 yrs in August 1913, he was just under 5ft 4 ins, dark brown hair, blue eyes, fresh complexion, small scar l [eft?] side forehead.

EDIT: His birthdate of 28th Jan 1895 on his naval papers tallies with the birthdate on this death index record:

Name: William Henry Bull
Birth Date: 28 Jan 1895<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Date of Registration: Sep 1970
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Horsham
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 5h
Page: 1618

Not sure if William Henry's batism has been posted or not:

Name: William Henry Bull
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 2 Aug 1895
Baptism Place: Barking Road, Essex, England
Father: William John Bull
Mother: Louisa Bull
FHL Film Number: 1471966
Reference ID: p 312 rn 2496

A bit of extra information from the image of the parish register of Holy Trinity, Barking Road, Canning Town is that William Henry was born on 21st July 1895, they lived at 23 Ascot Street, Canning Town and William John's occupation was Labourer.

FreeBMD shows two William Henry Bulls born in West Ham one registered in Q1 and one in Q3.

One died as an infant though -

Deaths Sep 1895 Deaths Sep 1895 Bull William Henry 0 W. Ham 4a 96

Probably the Q3 one, as the death record previously posted gives Jan 28th 1895 as birthdate, as does the naval record.

Births Sep 1895 Bull William Henry W. Ham 4a 82

But that one getting baptised says born 21 July and the one we need was born 28 Jan. More confusion!

Maryb.

Another aside - I think this might be William Henry Bull in census 1901. No sign of his father:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Moor, Dickleburgh, Depwade, Norfolk, England

William Fish Head Married Male 75 1826 Shoe Maker Dickleburgh, Norfolk, England
Elizabeth Fish Wife Married Female 49 1852 - Gosbeck, Suffolk, England
Robert Donley Boarder - Male 11 1890 - West Ham, Essex, England
William Bull Boarder - Male 7 1894 - West Ham<<<<<<<

Looks like he'd been farmed out as some sort of 'nurse child' following the death of his mother Louisa..

Think I'll just go tear my hair out... :-S

thank you all x this is why I posted on here for help lol John William was in the Navy from what I have been told as well he did live at some stage with his brother

Is this proof that he was son of Emma and William + brother to Stephen Bull.

on the baptism record it states address 23,Ascot Street .

1891 25,Asott Street
Emma Bluth (reads Bull on original)
Stephen son born Sandhurst Berkshire
Martha wife
George son
Arthur son

What do you think guys.

Maryb.

I thought the baptism was rather quick (at 2 weeks) implying that the child was not expected to live long.

Now I am even more confused,

This caught my eye,but I can't find the death record to check his age at death.

Probate/Will
William John Bull died 22/4/1933 of 21,Merton Road Walthamstow E17 Probate £800 on 10/9/1956 to William Henry Bull a Timber tester.

John William and Louisa were in E15 when they married and he seemed to stay in that area.
Can't understand that it took 23 years to settle,unless they couldn't find the relatives.

Maryb.

Just spoken to my mother and all the info from Kucinta is correct, and from what she can gather William henry married Annie Marie Barker in 1917 and whilst he was away at sea his father died so Annie Marie paid for John Williams Funeral

As a by the by, is this William Henry Bull as a seaman in the Royal Navy?

First name(s) William Henry
Last name Bull
Service number K20057
Birth year 1895
Birth date 28 Jan 1895<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth place West Ham<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth county Essex
Birth country England
Archive reference ADM 188/907/20057
Record set Royal Navy Seamen 1899-1919
Category Military, armed forces & conflict

His occupation on enlistment was factory labourer.

***This tallies with the 1911 census Maryb posted, with John W. born Reading, and a son William born 1895. West ham, who happens to be a labourer in a sugar works.***


1911 12,Fulton Street Canning Town Victoria docks.
William Bull 1864 reading Berkshire Bricklayers labourer<<<<<<
Ellen 48 says married 20 years?? 3 kids 2 died??
William 1895 West Ham labourer sugar works (could this be William Henry Bull 1895)<<<;

I seem to recall on your ancestry tree there is a picture of WHB as a young man in an open locket, I thought he might have been in naval sailor suit type top.

According to the record image he signed up for 12 yrs in August 1913, he was just under 5ft 4 ins, dark brown hair, blue eyes, fresh complexion, small scar l [eft?] side forehead.

EDIT: His birthdate of 28th Jan 1895 on his naval papers tallies with the birthdate on this death index record:

Name: William Henry Bull
Birth Date: 28 Jan 1895<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Date of Registration: Sep 1970
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Horsham
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 5h
Page: 1618

Also I have been told once out the Navy William Henry Bull was a Watcher in Royal docks-before Transport police on trains this is all great info but doesn't help with his dad who was married to Louisa Lees lol

I DO think that William Henry is the child of John William aka William,born Berkshire, who was the child of William the bricklayer born Pyrton Oxon, and his wife Emma.

I also agree the coincidence of Asott St and Ascott St isn;t, ie it does reflect the fact that John William, aka William, is the son of Emma from Brentford, widow of William Bull deceased bricklayer..

The naval record reflects the same occupation, labourer in sugar works, as factory labourer of the William Bull shown in the 1911 census Maryb found :

1911 12,Fulton Street Canning Town Victoria docks.
William Bull 1864 reading Berkshire Bricklayers labourer<<<<<<
Ellen 48 says married 20 years?? 3 kids 2 died??
William 1895 West Ham labourer sugar works (could this be William Henry Bull 1895)<<<;

The naval record says WIlliam Henry was born 28th Jan 1895, the death index also reflects this.

The child baptised in August is the child of William John and Louisa. We know their child survived to adulthood ; but how do we explain the anomaly of the 21st July birthdate?

I'd be happier if the date on the baptism were 28th July, then it could be a straightforward error. As it is, I can't explain it, but I am firmly of the belief that Maryb is right. WHB's naval record, address at time of baptism, occupation and parentage and parent's birth location in census 1911. The 1871.81 and 91 censuses also tally with John William's father being described as William Bull, deceased brick layer.

I strongly believe that George Bull and Elizabeth Wheeler are NOT the parents of John William Bull c1864/5. I hope I don't end up with egg on my face, but that's my current stance on the matter.

Kense, do you have access to the details of the 1917 marriage of William Henry Bull, just to see what it says about his father, and whether it confirms William Henry was in the navy at the time of marriage?

Marriages Jun 1917
Barker Annie M Bull W. Ham 4a 612
Bull William H Barker W.Ham 4a 612

EDIT: is there a burial record for the infant William Henry Bull who died Q3 1895? Just wondered if it might give names of one or both parents?

The death record to go with the probate Maryb mentioned earlier:

Probate/Will
William John Bull died 22/4/1933 of 21,Merton Road Walthamstow E17 Probate £800 on 10/9/1956 to William Henry Bull a Timber tester.

The probate also said the he'd died at St Joseph's Hospice, Mare Street Hackney, so I wondered about this death:

Deaths Jun 1933 Bull William J 62 Hackney 1b 396

The age at death looks about 5 yrs out, but such details are only as good as the knowledge of the informant reporting the death. If it were a hospice official, say, they may have just guestimated his age.