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Elizabeth Gallon

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Martin

Martin Report 24 Jun 2016 10:31

I spent ages trying to research my grandmother Elizabeth Wilson (formely Gallon) who was born around 1900 in the UK or Wales, i checked my dad's birth certificate (Chin Lee) who was born in 1921 (Jan) and it identified his mother as Elizabeth Gallon and on his birth certificate gave an address as 89 Church St, Runcorn U.D, Cheshire. I checked the census records and could not find this address.I am trying to find out who my grandmother was and where she came from
I would appreciate any information please

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 24 Jun 2016 10:45

Welcome to the boards Martin.

Work back from what you know. Who is named as his father?
If we can find a marriage, the certificate would name her father, if known

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 24 Jun 2016 10:57

Is chin Lee his full name as not seeing that birth record

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 24 Jun 2016 11:01

Is this the birth? EDIT - you said her married surname was Wilson, so probably not this one. Note to self, read the OP properly!
2nd EDIT - he's been double entered under Dock and Wilson. See later post by Shirley
Births Mar 1921 (>99%)
Dock Chin L Gallon Runcorn 8a 385

So your father's surname is actually Dock. (See edits)
........
The 1921 census won't be released until at least 2021. That's why you can't find it. You should find the Historical Electoral Roll at the nearsest Archive or Library with a Local Studies center. It would list the names of those entitiled to vote.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 24 Jun 2016 11:04

Ok he s chin Lee Wilson

CHIN L
Last name WILSON
Birth year 1921
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name GALLON
District RUNCORN
County Cheshire
Country England
Volume 8A
Page 385
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain

Who is named as his father

There are several Elizabeth Gallon births but none who married a mr Wilson

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 24 Jun 2016 11:06

Just found that one Shirley - he's double entered!!

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 24 Jun 2016 11:11

Ok Det thanks only got the one record come up as was on FMP

FreeBMD entry
Births Mar 1921
Dock Chin L Gallon Runcorn 8a 385
Wilson Chin L Gallon Runcorn 8a 385

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 24 Jun 2016 11:15

We need to find a Wilson/Gallon marriage now. Nothing seems to be coming up from 1915 :-0

Martin - How sure are you about her approx year of birth? Is that an assumption or based on a death?

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 24 Jun 2016 11:46

89 church street Runcorn is now a shop with possible accommodation above it

It's part of a run of shops so wonder if it was ever fully residential

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 24 Jun 2016 11:50

There is an entry for the address on the 1939 register, but has been redacted.

Is this relevant?
UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
Chin Lee
Gender: Female – as per image
Age: 3
Birth Date: abt 1921
Departure Date: 1 Nov 1924
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination Port: Hong Kong, China
Ship Name: Elpenor
Shipping line: Blue Funnel Line
Official Number: 137536
Master: Captain T W Hanney

Immediately above the entry is Dock Chin, a 50 year old male born in China and intending to settle in China. The last address for both of them was 817 Church St, Runcorn. He was a Laundryman
Lee Chin (or Chin Lee) has taken his citizenship from his father, if that is correct.

Are we getting tangled up with the Chinese tradition of listing the surname first rather than last? Not that it helps us with Elizabeth nee Gallon.

Martin

Martin Report 24 Jun 2016 12:38

Thank you all for your great detective work, i sent messages in response as i am new to this
The information provided is correct as i knowbut i am still trying to find out who my grandmother is :-)

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 24 Jun 2016 15:25

Reply sent to PMs before reading the thread.

Basically Martin concurs with the information posted here. We both agree it doesnt really take us any further forward (or back) with Elizabeth.
Martin's father was taken to China by his father & had no further contact with his mother.

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 24 Jun 2016 15:43

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1921 to 1923

WILSON Chin L Runcorn Halton RUN/106/66

http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/index.php

(no Dock on above)

Chris :)

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 25 Jun 2016 04:47

If his birth was entered under both surnames of Dock and Wilson, then surely this implies that Elizabeth's marriage to Mr Wilson had already taken place

that means that she may well be older than the estimated age of 21.

Could she indeed be an older mother?

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 25 Jun 2016 05:36

i've just lost a huge post :-( :-(

Working on the principle that Elizabeth Gallon might be older, I looked for marriages between a Mr Wilson and an Elizabeth Gallon form 1900 to 1921 ....... i didn't look before 1900. The following was the only one that I found on freebmd

Marriages Dec 1900 (>99%)

Gallon Mary Elizabeth Portsmouth 2b 1156
Wilson Thomas Tinnion Portsmouth 2b 1156


This looks like Thomas Tinnion's Birth Registration .....

Births Sep 1872 (>99%)
WILSON Thomas Tinnion Whitehaven 10b 566


I then found this Probate Record on ancestry .............

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name: Thomas Tinnion Wilson
Probate Date: 8 Feb 1917
Registry: Exeter
Death Date: 12 Nov 1916
Death Place: Devon, England

from image:-
of Mill Street, Sidmouth, Devonshire, grocer, died 12 November 1916 at the Devon County Asylum, Exminster, Devonshire. Probate granted Exeter 8 February 1917 to Thomas Gallon, engineer, and Mary Elizabeth Wilson, widow.
Effects £454 1s


The following death registration matches the probate record, St Thomas is the Registration District that includes Exminster ...........

Deaths Dec 1916 (>99%)
Wilson Thomas T 43 St.Thomas 5b 88


But then my possible theory came to a screeching halt :-(

If the information on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses is accurate, Mary Elizabeth would be too old to have a child in 1921 :-(

1901 Census

Name: Thomas F Wilson <<<<< it is Thomas T on the image
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Spouse: Mary E Wilson
Mother: Mary A Wilson
Birth Place: Larton, Cumberland, England
Civil Parish: Portsmouth
Search Photos: Search for 'Portsmouth' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: Southsea St Bartholomew
Town: Portsmouth
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Registration district: Portsmouth
Sub-registration district: Kingston and East Southsea
ED, institution, or vessel: 18

Piece: 987
Folio: 120
Page Number: 17
Household schedule number: 134

Mary A Wilson 55 b.ca 1846, Worthington, Cumberland, Widow, Living on Own Means
Thomas F Wilson 29 b.ca 1872, Lrton, Cumberland, Son, Tea Dealer (Grocer
Mary E Wilson 36 b.ca 1865, Camden Town, London, Daughter-in-law

Address:- 54 Beach Farm Rd


1911 Census

Name: Thomas Tannior Wilson
Age in 1911: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Orton, Cumberland, England
Civil Parish: Portsmouth
Search Photos: Search for 'Portsmouth' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address: 54 Francis Avenue, Southsea
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Grocers Assistant Co Operative Society
Registration district: Portsmouth
Registration District Number: 90
Sub-registration district: Kingston and East Southsea
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Household schedule number: 223
Piece: 5537

Thomas Tannior Wilson 39
Mary Elizabeth Wilson 45 b.ca 1866, Camden Town, London

Married 10 years, no children

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 25 Jun 2016 05:42

Mary Elizabeth seems to have certainly been born ca 1866

This looks like her in 1881 (from FMP as ancestry has stopped working for me) .....

1881 Census

George Gallon Head Married Male 44 1837 Rly Engine Driver Northumberland, England
Emma Gallon Wife Married Female 46 1835 - Edenham, Lincolnshire, England
Mary Elizbth Gallon Daughter Single Female 17 1864 Domestic Servant Camden Town, Middlesex, England
George Edw Gallon Son Single Male 13 1868 Labourer In Printing Works Battersea, Surrey, England
Eva Eliza Gallon Daughter Single Female 11 1870 Scholar Battersea, Surrey, England
Wm Taylor Gallon Son Single Male 9 1872 Scholar Battersea, Surrey, England
Emma Gallon Daughter Single Female 8 1873 Scholar Battersea, Surrey, England
John Gallon Son Single Male 6 1875 Scholar Battersea, Surrey, England
Isabella Gallon Daughter Single Female 4 1877 Scholar Battersea, Surrey, England
Herbert Gallon Son Single Male 1 1880 - Battersea, Surrey, England
Eliza Herbert Sister In Law - Female 45 1836 Domestic Servant Unemployed Edenham, Lincolnshire, England

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 25 Jun 2016 05:48

I really doubt that someone born in 1864-1866 would have had a child in 1921, at the age of ca 55


Back to the drawing board!

Martin

Martin Report 25 Jun 2016 13:59

Thanks Sylviain & Detective for your contributions in helping me find out my grand mother
I came to same conclusion Sylviain that my grandmother must have been born around 1900 to have my father in 1921
My father when he was alive, did not mention much about his mother other than to say she was from Wales. My father was born in Runcorn, Cheshire. From my reserach i foundout there was an Elizabeth Gallon born in 1900 in S Shields in Durham, I ordered the birth certificate for this- GallonElizabethS. Shields10a779irismarie
Having received it, i am no better off so i dont think it was the correct one
My grand father's name was Chin Dock & his mother name was Elizabeth Wilson (formerly Gallon) . on my dad;s Birth Certificate the address mentioned is 89 Church St, Runcorn
That's all i have

Martin

Martin Report 25 Jun 2016 14:03

I think my father was an illegitimate child, my grand mother abandoned him (in those days it was not the done thing) so he went with his father to China but came back later to UK when he was 16 and later married my mother who is still alive
I dont think my father ever saw her again but i still dont know anything about my grandmother, whether she was married, whether she had family, when she died etc

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 25 Jun 2016 16:47

UK, Incoming Passenger Lists,

Name: Chin Lee
Birth Date: abt 1921
Age: 16
Port of Departure: Japan
Arrival Date: 26 May 1937
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ship Name: Memnon
Shipping line: Blue Funnel Line
Official Number: 162335

Last permanent residence: Hong Kong
Proposed UK Address: 180 P?????? Road, Manchester

I can't read the address- do you think it may have been connected with UK relatives?